Kota man and possible neurofibroma?

TAOofGoldyShep

I would also look at Acupuncture

among everything else I've suggested, acupuncture **absolutely**.  A *good* TCVM vet (not to replace your vet or your neuro guy but specifically as "complimentary therapy";) will also be able to help pin down exactly where the inflammation may originate.

The other good option is homotoxicology -- it specifically can be really incredible for a neurofibroma -- my own practitioner (the one I use for me) and working on two humans with neurofibroma right now to help reduce the growth.

As far as age?  I don't see 12 as that old -- particularly not a dog like Kota who has been in good shape til recently.  Foxy was 17 when I had his last lipoma and teeth cleaning done and he was good for another 2 years.  He really had no problem at all recovering but the lipoma was in a place that as it grew it began making mobility impaired and a bit painful.  Removing it took a couple of years off him (and his teeth were always a concern because of his crappy narrow little sheltie mouth -- so keeping his teeth clean was a major part of *his* longevity).

At the same time, my vet is extremely careful about sedative/anesthesia combinations and often will simply mask down a dog who feels comfortable with him rather than adding the sedative. 

Pain can age them artificially -- if you can get rid of the source of pain you can often restore the health and resilience. 

 Thank you both for your thoughts. This is a tough time for us. We just lost Pepper and I can't imagine life without my little man.

Callie, I agree, 12 is not old, but the pain he is experiencing is making him look older. I know this feeling first hand and I would do anything to help him not be in pain.  But I also don't want to add to his pain either.

There is not much on neurofibroma's in dogs. Most information must be about malignant ones because they talk about amputating limbs!  I had a nightmare once that I came home from a trip and my mom had been watching the dogs and Kota was missing his hind leg.  I really hope that wasn't a foreshadowing dream.  I woke up bawling with tears streaming down my face that night.

Leslie -- remember, I am, myself, quite disabled.  Dogs deal really well with pain when they know you are trying to aleve it.  Temporary pain to heal?? It's not hard.  We do what we gotta do and dogs are EXCELLENT at that. 

If you go to http://www.tcvm.com -- on the left is a locator.  Feel free to email me if you want help trying to pick a TCVM vet.  There is kind of a trick to it.  Unlike a regular vet you want that one who may be a "lone wolf" -- someone SO convinced that TCVM is incredible that they make it their practice.  Not necessarily that big vet who offers acupuncture as an "extra" -- for something like this you need someone GOOD.

I can always run someone by Dr. D (if you look under faculty you'll see Dr. DiNatale who is Billy's TCVM vet).  Also -- if you've never seen acupuncture done on an animal you can go to the "videos" on here and there is a video of Dr. D doing acupuncture on Billy.  the only reason Billy has my husband's hands on him too is because Billy wants to squirm around and get kisses and treats while he's getting needled.  It is painless.

it was one of the VETS up at Gainesville (U of FL vet school) who got ME to go to an acupuncturist for my own arthritis years ago.  Best thing a vet ever did for ME. 

 Hi Callie, Dr DeMarco is actually on that list. I need to get Kota in to see her soon so she can refill his Pheno script. She is the vet that helped with Pepper, so we'll be going to see her soon.

I've tried acupuncture myself and did not find it effective at all.  I did it twice.  I would give it a shot for Kota but having tried it myself, I have my doubts.  Now PT and massage? I am ALL for those as they have really helped me over time.

I just feel like I've been chasing this unknown demon since June with the little guy. I have spent over $3000 trying to find out what is going on and there is still no "sure" idea.  It's frustrating.  He seems to do well on pain meds, but he still does not put full weight on the leg even on them, so I know he still is uncomfortable, but these last few days have been the worst without his pain meds.  I can really see a difference in his attitude and demeanor.  I hate this part and I hope that the EMG will show something on Monday. 

But then what if it does? Do I let a doctor just cut into him to see what they can find?  Or do I draw the line there? I mean, if it is a NF then it can be removed and perhaps his pain will be gone?! That would be the best outcome!  But what if he cuts into him and can't find anything?  Then what?  I mean, we did the test in June and the xrays last week and they found nothing. I am beginning to doubt that anything *will* be found, ya know?  Which is making me want to take a more conservative route and just manage his symptoms.... ugh so frustrating to make that kind of decision!

I had great results with Acupuncture treatments on my own shoulder injury. Two of my three dogs have had great results also. One of them had Acupuncture due to a shoulder injury that was causing him to cry out in pain (came barreling around a corner and nailed his shoulder into a park bench and went down immediately in pain...when the pain was not getting better after a couple of days I brought him in to see how he'd do). Two treatments was all it took for him to be back to "normal." That was over 6 years ago...the joint is a bit wonky, but there is no pain.

Like I mentioned in the doggy massage thread, I am here if you want to pick my brain regarding massage. Just shoot me a message. If you decide to try out a pet massage video first, you can always chat with me after.

Neurofibroma is usually locally invasive, not wildly metastatic, but still hard to cure.  So, your decision about surgery will really hinge on what's found.  Also, I did spot this about electrochemotherapy which has been used on dogs with this cancer - maybe you can find more, since this study was done in 2001 and things may have progressed a lot with that intervention since then: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11724311?dopt=Abstract

All I know is that canine cancer sucks, and I'm sorry you are going through this with such a great little dog.

Leslie, I truly admire your devotion to helping each of your dogs.  I know you will do what is best for Kota.  Sending thoughts and vibes for clarity, gentle scritches for Kota, and (((Hugs))) for you.

sharismom

Leslie, I truly admire your devotion to helping each of your dogs.  I know you will do what is best for Kota.  Sending thoughts and vibes for clarity, gentle scritches for Kota, and (((Hugs))) for you.

agreed - it is a tough call as to what to do but I would likely try the alternative therapies and PT first

tashakota

I've tried acupuncture myself and did not find it effective at all.  I did it twice.  I would give it a shot for Kota but having tried it myself, I have my doubts.  Now PT and massage? I am ALL for those as they have really helped me over time.

I have had acupuncture myself for several years now.  There are good acupuncturists and not so good ones.  But honestly I often feel that acupuncturists don't explain the healing process well -- we humans who have grown up inthe "take a pill" world tend to want results NOW.  We want to walk out feeling CHANGED.

Sometimes you do with acupuncture ... sometimes you don't. 

I learned with ME a long time ago that I usually don't walk out feeling "changed" at all.  but usually by tomorrow morning I will feel better.

However, it depends on what the acupuncturist DID -- sometimes acupuncture is used to help  reduce pain.  But MOST of the time it's best use is to help "healing" take place.  And when you get acupuncture for healing it often doesn't make a whole lot of difference right away at all.

But seriously -- I can tell you the biggest difference is in what I first said.  Some acpuncturists are good ... some ... aren't.  And I suspect it makes more difference in how someone 'feels' than anyone would like to admit.

Also -- different animals react differently to acupuncture.   Billy is typically SO consumed with wanting to find Tom the Tech to see if he has ANY treats on him ... and oh by the way Dr. D aren't you going to CUDDLE ON ME while you needle me???  And can't we please not bother with the one in my ankle this time??

He never settles down completely  -- he's not in pain, he just really has too many buddies at the vet to want to settle.

Muffin the intrepid and Kee Shu?  zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - before the first needle was in they were zoned.  You had to wake them up when it was done.

Foxy??  He wanted to walk all over while needles were in -- he never shook them out but he didn't want to stand still.

Luna and Ms. Socks (another prior dog) -- takes them a few sessions to decide this is worth it -- but then they discovered it DOES help and they start settling right away.

Emma hated it, but learned to settle, because it helped (she pulled a few needles out, in her time, LOL. Touchy spot, there!). She'd stand, with her head over my shoulder, and wait. Is it done, yet? Can we go, now?

Jewel wanted to wiggle and kiss, but ended up falling asleep before the needles came out. It really relaxed her, a lot! I need to find someone local, to take care of her. Chi Institute is too far! LOL

Each dog is SO unique in how they respond and so are humans.

I literally can NOT go in the morning before work to get acupuncture -- because it puts ME to sleep and I'm worthless all day long!

 Well Kota had the EMG done on Monday. Another round of anesthesia and another large sum of money gone.  The EMG shows delayed impulses going down the leg. Normal is 60's and he's at 35, so almost half the neurons firing down his leg than normal. The doc did another CT scan of his pelvis and I'm staill waiting on those results.  he thinks that there is something going on, just not sure what yet.

Kota's on Prednisone for 10 days to see if that helps with the inflammation going on. Doc wants me to report back on how he's doing and using the leg, etc.   I really didn't want him on Pred but the doctor thinks it will be beneficial and is necessary to get the inflammation down.

Now I'm off to call the doc about that CT scan. 

My experiences with acupuncture are limited but very good. Frisby had acu when she was so sick with IMHA, arthritis, etc. It took about 5 treatments before we saw real improvement and after 7 or 8 she did not seem to have anywhere near the same pain (no groaning when she rolled over, changed positions, etc.--she had been groaning a lot before we started). I knew it was going to take at least 4 treatments to see something.

Sinbad just started receiving acu and chiro. He has some arthritis but also just some "leftover" issues after losing 48 lbs. (making sure is spine is aligned, hips are OK, etc.)  He's had one treatment of each and I would guess I'll see something noticable after the 3rd or so.

And, I'll chime in with the milk thistle reminder (if you're not already doing that). I know Callie will add more good info about that.

Lots of hugs and good thoughts coming your way! Kota, feel better sweet guy!