Darvon
Are you telling me that if I ate brown rice, organic boneless skinless chicken, and mixed vegtables consisting of(carrots, peas, and corn) with filtered water every single day... That I would not thrive and be healthy? are you serious. Are you insinuating that you would live longer than I would because you drank milk, i doubt that.
First off -- be a bit careful -- there are a LOT of us on this site who homecook. some do raw -- and Jennie is just one of many. So ... don't try to pick a fight ok?? You asked for help and we'll try but don't be arrogant unless you DON'T really want help (and honestly, yes -- you sounded arrogant in your response to her).
Dog's have different nutritional requirements than we do -- their digestive system is really pretty different, BUT they can be omnivores **if** we help them.
Case in point -- brown rice. It's marginally more nutritious than white rice, but it's also hard as heck for them to digest. Dogs don't digest cellulose well -- so -- with brown rice you have to cook it into oblivion (way past 'done';) OR you have to process it into paste to get it broken down enough to really have it nutritionally be useful. It's not 'bad' -- it's just more difficult to digest so we have to make sure we prepare it so they get the nutrition from it that IS there.
"mixed veggies" -- that's a loaded concept. When you serve the same veg mix all the time you then approach the dogfood companies who want you to feed the same thing. BUT beyond that peas/carrots/corn have some individual problems -- you can do better with *other* veggies.
Carrots -- they love them -- but they're high in phosphorous for any calcium that's there (check out 'cal/phos ratio' -- it's even important for humans).
Peas -- not really a veggie - they're a legume so techically they are a protein -- but only part of a protein mix. Again there's that tough skin around the outside -- if I were using peas (which I don't typically) I'd probably use dried "split pea" so they would distintigrate as cooked. Incidentally, I've known people who did an elmination "allergy" diet of spllit peas and mashed white potato for WEEKS and then used that as the 'base' of what they ultimately built into a allergy-free diet for their dogs.
Corn -- that one honestly I'd skip. Again, really tough to digest that outer skin, but more to the point a whole *lot* of dogs can be allergic to corn if they aren't allergic to any other food. so you're tossing in a potential allergen there.
I know you're referring to the frozen "mix" of carrots, peas and corn -- and on occasion it would be fine. BUT you're limiting the nutrition seriously there.
Long term? As a human would that be a "balanced" diet for you? Nope. Altho -- we humans supposedly chew our food to grind it up, and a lot of people grow up veggie impaired and never GET beyond "mixed veggies" (altho my Dad was fine if he had corn Sunday night, Peas Monday, carrot sticks on Tuesday and then rotate them again!!)
What do I feed?
This week the veggies are kale, turnip greens, sweet potato, white potato, green beans, tomato (that one is canned - diced with oregano/basil added) and one can of pure-pack pumpkin (not pie filling). All those are cooked til tender and then I mash the whole thing up with a potato masher. I don't peel the potatoes (neither) but I DO chop them up enough so that the skin breaks down in cooking and digests well.
But I vary it mostly every week. sweet potato and white potato tend to be my 'base' -- I don't use grain at all (it's really not something their bodies use well and it can create inflammation problems in *my* dogs so I skip it if possible).
TO THAT I add ground beef (and I rotate that with ground pork, lamb, whitefish, ground turkey -- usually NOT white meat). I don't feed chicken at all.
It's not 'bad' -- but again, it can promote inflammation in a couple of my dogs so I just plain skip it. It's not an 'allergy' -- it's more like an intolerance. Sometimes it's FINE -- other times, it will add to problems that may be lurking.
I put some sort of fish in EVERY week -- sometimes it's simply a sardine or two each day (usually I add canned sardines -- olive oil or water) for each dog.
Once a month I do organ meat -- sometimes more often than that. Generally liver or heart. Generally beef. But I add the organ meat as an "extra" -- it's not the main meat ever. Liver and kidneys are "dirty" organs -- any antibiotics, or drugs or chemicals that animal consumed days/weeks prior to slaughter STAY in the liver and kidneys (they filter the blood of ANY animal) so I try to stick with minimal organ meat but they DO need it.
Beef heart is awesome -- it's CHEAP as heck and it's a 'clean' organ and very little fat. Sometimes I will just cut it up and give it raw as a treat, sometimes I will substitute it as part of their meat ration for that week. I can get it for about $1.69 at my grocery store -- can't beat that.
THEN I ADD -- Calcium. I buy Natures Essentials (it's harvested from kelp -- so if you have a dog allergic to seafood like Jennie's dog is you can't use that as a calcium source). My dogs don't get a *lot* of bones. They get some, but not nearly enough for the calcium they need (healthy bones and strong bodies -- just like the old commercial said -- and yeah, for you and I as well!!) How much calcium you need to add depends on the kind you use. Bone meal is easily obtainable in any health store -- but it has to be "human quality" bone meal - NOT NOT NOT garden bone meal (it's poison). But generally, depending on brand, you use either one rounded teaspoon to either 8 or 16 oz of meat
Beyond this is varies WIDELY. If you look in the nutrition section on this website you'll find TONS of stuff on cooking and raw diets. Everyone's got an opinion. But pretty please -- be a bit open minded and keep in mind we all have our own frames of reference.
Darvon
Don't most people give their dogs the same dry food... over their entire life... and that is more healthy or "balanced" then what we are doing? I am having a hard time believing it.
First off it all depends on what kind of food you're using. Man -- quality is all over the place. Most grocery store brands, and even pet store brands (like Authority, Iams, Eukaneuba) and even vet brands (like Hills) -- they use meat sources that are the pits and contain all sorts of carcinogens as preservatives and in most states they don't even have to put it on the label!! Because the only thing they are required to put on the label is what THEY add. So if they're buying an inferior meat source that is preserved to the hilt with BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin -- they don't even have to label it. (and those are things that are illegal for the most part in human food).
But going to the really expensive brands -- it's still all over the map how good the meat may be, what it's preserved with, how much grain is in it, and how much protein.
THOSE THINGS are very individual.
But as far as 'balanced'? Most dog foods -- even the majorly crappy ones like Ole Roy and Purina -- they ARE **balanced** according to national vet specifications. But they're adding powdered vitamins and supplements. The 'food' itself is minimal -- the majority of the "nutrition" is coming from what essentially amounts to chemicals in **some** cases. That's how they can offer you 12 kinds of meat, etc. or gravy or no gravy -- because what they "lack" in one flavor they simply add more vitamins, minerals, etc. to "balance" it.
But is that better? A whole lot of us on here would say "no". Because it's not just the nutrition that is "there" - it's HOW the body uses it. It's also the extra lovely things like carcinogens as preservatives, and tons of grains and bulks that a lot of us object to. If I *make* the food I know exactly what's in it. No guess.
Probably the *biggest* motivator for me to cook is elminating BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin and avoiding a ton of grain in the food.
Why? Because I've lost a couple of dogs to cancer. Dogs who ate pretty darned well in the vast scheme of commerical foods. But ... foods I now know contained carcinogenic preservatives. It's one of MY hot buttons.
That's the basis of why I *don't* feed grain. Because cancer feeds on grain carbs and it makes cancer grow. So not only have I used "cancer diets" on dogs with cancer -- I simply now feed my dogs without grain so **IF** there is cancer it's not going to be inadvertently fed by what I give them.
Again -- my decision.
Darvon
That I would not thrive and be healthy? are you serious. Are you insinuating that you would live longer than I would because you drank milk, i doubt that.
Sorry -- I'm mixing up your paragraphs, but for a reason.
I had a pom/peke mix once I rescued as a street stray at the age of 5 months. When she was 3 she got a really **horrible** case of pancreatitis. This was like 34 years ago -- and when I sprung her from the doggie "joint" hospital the vet said to me "If you want her to LIVE you will cook for her and NOT give her commercial dog food -- she'll likely always have pancreatic problems -- here's a diet for you!"
He handed me a piece of paper. Essentially it was a "diet" of white rice, a small amount of relatively good quality ground beef, a bit of powdered garlic for flavor and one egg stirred in for extra protein (http://www.critturs.com/prissy.html ) -- the actual recipe is on that page.
She lived to be TWENTY-ONE. Not even any veggies in that. An occaisonal bone. OCCASIONALLY I gave her cottage cheese. But other than that -- she stuck with that completely "unbalanced" diet for the next 18 years.
But ... when she got old she was pretty danged frail. Now that I know what i know I could have done better for her and elminated some weakness in her old age.
She also had darned few breed-related health issues and generally was pretty darned healthy. She had a LOT of anal gland issues (which I could have eliminated with better roughage in her diet had I known).
Now -- would a human on your brown rice/chicken/mixed veggie diet thrive? It would honestly depend on how healthy they were.
We humans distain dark meat chicken because it has more *cholesterol*!!!!! We prize the white meat and then think we're doing something special giving our dogs breast meat. That's not really true. Dark meat gives them more nutrition -- dogs don't have the cholesterol problems people do -- it's the difference in how our hearts and dog hearts process meat/cholesterol.
However -- I can tell you this. If you are a WOMAN you wouldn't do very well on that diet long, long term -- because, depending on your genetic history, you'd very likely wind up with osteoporosis!!!
We humans get our calcium quite well from dairy. Dogs tend not to ... again it's a difference in their digestive systems.
But bottom line -- it's honestly not just a matter of "ok" or "not". It's a matter of grades and doing the best we can.
One of the reasons I home cook is to avoid health issues. Yes, I avoid and "starve" cancer by feeding essentially a cancer diet all the time. But -- one of the reasons I use the sweet potato base is because it's high in anti-oxidants and it's very kidney friendly. I have an English cocker that survived IMHA (read "boodles of steroids and steroid-like drugs that kill the liver and kidneys for 2 years";) and given that I did my level best to control the damage by giving him tons of milk thistle (he's alive -- trust me, it's no small accomplishment) we STILL have ***some*** kidney damage.
When you have kidney *damage* it's gone. There's no 'repair' to it. The liver will regenerate. The kidneys don't. So ... I keep his kidneys in the best shape I possibly can. So I feed him stuff that is very kidney friendly.
Billy gets stuff like kale, asparagus, sweet potato, and a whole lot of other things because they are kidney friendly. I also use a lot of the principles of Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine in how I feed my animals -- and they use food a *lot* to heal.
If one of my dogs has a health issue we typically tweak the food to help. I tend not to have "easy" dogs. My healthy one is a basset/beagle mix who is built like a suspension bridge on legs -- she's gotta stay lean so I can avoid back problems later on. I've got the English Cocker who survived IMHA, but he's got a grade 3 heart murmur and we skirt the renal problems. But he's alive, healthy and doing VERY well. We've got a pug who nearly died of infection before she was 5 months old -- she had a majorly crap immune system but she's matured into a lovely *healthy* dog but she has some skin issues and some ear issues and I suspect we will see some seasonal allergy stuff eventually. I want to keep that immune system healthy to avoid that if possible. I have a 19 year old little old lady peke who's entering life's final round. But dang -- she's still hanging on -- she's fragile and frail but still eating like a horse. (losing weight horribly but we're doing our best and that that age she's doing darned well).
I'm honestly not sure what your basic argument is -- but then you don't know the folks on this board. If you're trying to convince folks that commercial dog food isn't all it's cracked up to be? You aren't going to get many to fight that one with you here because as I said a LOT of us either home cook or do raw.
You asked our opinion on what you're doing -- and I tried to do that. Is it horrible? No, it's not. But by tweaking it you can do better. By using a **variety** of veggies and meats you can actually do REALLY well.
One of your respondants congratulated you on an allergy diet for your dog. They're right. You've limited the ingredients, so you essentially have done your own version of an elimination diet.
So don't change it ALL at once. Add ONE thing ... see how it's tolerated. Then add another. You'll be able to identify what works and what doesn't.
You've identified some problems like dandruff/dryness -- Jennie is right -- there's likely not enough fat in what you're giving. Now there's a whole BOOK of information just on fats and dogs. They don't do well on veggie fats, and some meat fats (particularly when cooked) can be problematic in quantity. But there are lots of ways to arrive at that.
AND sometimes the variety in "lots of ways" can be your salvation -- because in giving a thing occasionally (like organ meat) you are able to provide those trace elements (like copper) that a 'balanced' diet needs but doesn't need LOTS of.
It all depends on how deep into it you want to get. There are gals on here with spreadsheets and recipes out the ying yang. They can bury you in statistics.
That's FINE. That's *great* for them. It's not *my* way. I arrive at 'safety' in variety. bok choy? okra? parsnip? turnip? cabbage? (red and white), 5 varieties of squash and pumpkin? You bet. Every week? no.
I manage to feed myself. Feeding the dogs isn't tons different. But it is *some* different and honestly, the one thing you really need to read up on is the *difference* between dog digestion and ours. It will help you.
I may have just wasted an hour and a half typing this. Because maybe you really don't *want* an answer. Don't think because someone comes right to the point and says "no, that's not balanced" that they're telling you that you're killing your dog. That's not the case.
How important is 'balance'? That completely depends on the individual and their health. Genetics in humans AND dogs makes a huge difference. I come from a family with high cholesterol and heart problems - so I bust my own butt to make sure I keep it in line. And mostly? I do *not* eat like my parents do! (and honestly, I feed myself way better now that I know dog nutrition better) I also have a huge family history of osteoporosis and arthritis -- so I have to feed my own self wisely there as well.
I do the same for my dogs.
good luck and welcome. But don't assume an answer before you've asked your question. There are a lot of folks here who are really knowledgable. If you're looking for a fight someone will give it to you (and the rest of us will give you a wide berth) -- but if you're really looking for information you'll find that as well -- and good discussion along the way.