AIHA or IMHA

Yup, ditto all that, and I always to try to remember what a gift we have to help our animals over the bridge in a dignified manner when we have to make that decision for them. My heart was so unbelievably sad but also somewhat lifted the day I had to help my springer spaniel across-we talked about it (yeah, she was deaf, too, but we still talked) and it was time because we just couldn't manage her pain and other stuff any more. My only regret was I think I waited one day too long...but she was OK with that.

Frisby hasn't given up and hasn't been in horrible pain--two important points for me personally. I think she'll let me know when it's time. She's not good about letting me know when she's in a lot of pain--so I do worry about that. I watch for it in her eyes. It is getting a lot more exhausting for her to go to the vet (it's a 6+ hour trip just for blood draws), so we're trying to see if we can do  some of the monitoring draws on the island and have me deliver the blood to the vet's. We don't have details set up yet, and I'm not sure we'll be able to make it work, but I am worried about the toll the trip is taking.

It's all so hard sometimes. But (here's my warped views again)...I've learned a ton and I've met cool people--all unexpected benefits!

Praying so hard for Indie and family. . .

Kate, if there is anything I can do with helping transport blood for you just let me know.  Willow would be happy to take a ride with me! 

Thank you, Lori! I figure I can just drop if off on the way to work. We just have to figure out who's going to do the draw and get the OK from Dr. Katie. But, it's so good to know there's a back up!

FrisbyPI

(it's a 6+ hour trip just for blood draws)

Johnny&Tessy

That's insane!!!  Are there no closer vets than this one or is this just a prefered vet?

I live on an island that requires ferry travel to get to the mainland. There are no medical services (human or animal) on the island (well, that's not quite true--we do have two herbalists and a massage therapist). There's really nothing commercial here-just people and a place to get your mail, buy the paper, and buy very expensive milk (ferry surcharge). There are no restaurants, stores, theatres, malls, or anything else mainland like. Eating out means eating at a friend's house (or my Mom's downstairs from me). When I take Frisby to the vet, I leave my house just after 10 am to catch the last ferry of the morning and get back just after 4 pm on the first afternoon boat. (It's a 30 min. ride each way.) That option is available 2 days a week. Otherwise, I would have to leave at 8 am at get back at 4 am. There are no other ferries in between.  It's part of the adjustment you have to make. It's especially hard for our one of our senior citizens who has to go off every day for radiation therapy, so I try not to complain about Frisby's trip--except it is getting harder for her. Because of my work schedule, I do have to stay off island 1-2 nights a week. Frisby just goes down stairs to Grandma and Grandpa's. (She goes up and down several times a day when I'm here, too. She loves being with them.)

Now the pluses--I look out my window and I have a lighthouse right there. I have beaches that I rarely have to share with anyone else. I can go clamming when ever I want, and if I were inclined, I could even have 4-5 lobster pots. We have really nice gardens, tons of birds, and pretty cool sunrises (on my side of the island) and sunsets. In her younger years, Fris and I could go walking for hours off lead just enjoying the woods, beaches and peace and quiet. Not bad. Not bad at all.

FrisbyPI

Sending lots of prayers and continued healing vibes for everyone on Indie's team! Are you at a vet school? (I think you said teaching hospital--if it's not at a vet school, and you think I should add it to our database, let me know--we keep a list of all vet schools that have hospitals (some don't) and other hospitals that the national vet school association lists in their database--helps to get info out to folks quickly.) 

Indie is at North Carolina State Veterinary Teaching Hospital and they've really been phenomenal with his care. 

We aren't sure why but he looked really good yesterday morning, a lot of the people involved with his care were surprised, not sure if finally he got a full day without undergoing anything and felt better, but it was pretty uplifting to see.  He's been moved from ICU to intermediate care, and got a new catheter collar which some staff affixed hearts too, its really cute.  The big difference between ICU and intermediate care is they don't monitor the vitals via machine in intermediate care, but Indie is stable enough for that.  Also typically the visiting hours for ICU are much longer and flexible, but they've gone out of they're way to make sure we can visit anytime we want which has been great.  It's also $100 cheaper a day, he's been running over $400 a day, and hopefully buys us another day or two to let the antibiotics and Indie start a recovery.

Last night he looked really tired, but he was getting his first dose of the new powerful IV antibiotics (they've decided on Amikacin).  Amikacin (assuming it is a heart valve infection) should be effective against the 2 most common types of bacteria found in dogs that are resistant to broad spectrum antibotics (He's being removed from the Baytril).  The side effects are mostly kidney related so they will be doing some tests to make sure its at a clinical dosages but not hurting the kidneys (about the one organ that has seem to been working correctly the entire time knock on wood).  We were told that if its going to work, we should see results within 72 hours, everyday is big but these next few are really important.  We also might hear back about the blood cultures today (36 hours), but could be a few more days.

Thanks for all the continued well wishes and support!

Now the pluses--I look out my window and I have a lighthouse right there. I have beaches that I rarely have to share with anyone else. I can go clamming when ever I want, and if I were inclined, I could even have 4-5 lobster pots. We have really nice gardens, tons of birds, and pretty cool sunrises (on my side of the island) and sunsets. In her younger years, Fris and I could go walking for hours off lead just enjoying the woods, beaches and peace and quiet. Not bad. Not bad at all.

 NOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE HEAVEN!!!!

Sending out more prayers and good vibes for Indie, hang in there!!

indiej

Indie is at North Carolina State Veterinary Teaching Hospital and they've really been phenomenal with his care. 

They are wonderful there! I lived in NC for years--Frisby's from the Greensboro animal shelter.

Sending TONS of prayers and healing evergy for a succesful IV treatment!

indiej

Indie is at North Carolina State Veterinary Teaching Hospital and they've really been phenomenal with his care. 

a friend of mine is affiliated with that college and I KNOW they are good.  (I've got a young friend of mine I'm trying to encourage to go there)  And all you've said has just made me respect them even more.

indiej

but it was pretty uplifting to see. 

taking encouragement where you can find it is a GOOD and smart thing!!  Hang in, Indie -- hang in!!!

indiej

Last night he looked really tired, but he was getting his first dose of the new powerful IV antibiotics (they've decided on Amikacin).  Amikacin (assuming it is a heart valve infection) should be effective against the 2 most common types of bacteria found in dogs that are resistant to broad spectrum antibotics (He's being removed from the Baytril).  The side effects are mostly kidney related so they will be doing some tests to make sure its at a clinical dosages but not hurting the kidneys (about the one organ that has seem to been working correctly the entire time knock on wood).  We were told that if its going to work, we should see results within 72 hours, everyday is big but these next few are really important.  We also might hear back about the blood cultures today (36 hours), but could be a few more days.

 And IV antibiotic is a good thing  No trauma to the gut.  CONCENTRATED right into the bloodstream.  The end of the day for heart stuff is always more difficult   i.e., it's pretty normal and may not have had a lot to do with what was or wasn't done.  Anything heart-related is tiring simply because the body isn't getting all the oxygen it needs without having to work too hard to get it.

indiej

Thanks for all the continued well wishes and support!

Originally this messageboard was part of something called "I-Dog" and a lot of us still tend to think of this as "i-Dog" -- but there is a really interesting thing that happens here.  people tend to be really helpful and really supportive.  We've seen really wonderful answers to prayer and the results of supportive good thots.

kHopefully we can focus some of that good will and prayer and positive energy (all of which are helpful no matter your spiritual persuasion or lack thereof) and see if sheer collective will can get Indie over this hump!!

I'm thrilled he's been moved to the less expensive care and that, in itself, is a good sign!!

Callie-I think we should make Indie a thread in prayer area so everyone will see it and we can widen the circle of thoughts. 

Hang in there, Indie!!

willowchow

I think we should make Indie a thread in prayer area so everyone will see it and we can widen the circle of thoughts.

Ditto that.

Checking in and sending more prayers and good vibes to Indie.

The superstitious side of me is hesitant to post this..

But Indie looked great yesterday, he was doing things we haven't seen in days or weeks.  He was grooming himself, chewed on a bone for a couple minutes, was anxious to greet new people/dogs (hasn't been since he got real sick), and his neck (he was having serious problems moving it) seems to be much more comfortable (he was looking over the back of his body instead of turning completely around to see something behind him).  His PCV's which dropped to 30 (from 40) after all his procedures is back up to 37, his liver values have dropped. 

What's pretty strange is his improvements are way to early to be from the antibiotics (only had been on them less than 12 hours yesterday).  We are extremely happy over these developments, but also at a loss to explain how (not that we care as long as they continue!).  It could be Indie himself getting control over whatever has been plaguing him, the only real other change is his very quick drop of Pred, we are now something like 4 reductions in levels in less than 2 weeks.  I know for quickly suppressing the immune system its the drug of choice, and in that respect probably saved Indie's life more than a month ago, but I can't help but wonder how much of his current issues are directly related to long term high levels of Pred.

Back to the happy stuff, they are slowly lowering his fluids and his pain medication to see if they can get him to a level they feel comfortable releasing him.  Right now the target is possibly Sunday (assuming things continue to progress positively).  If we get to that point they will have us give him his pain meds via a patch, and his antibiotics via subq. They are also monitoring his blood and urine pretty closely to make sure the Amikacin (he's on the lowest dosage per weight recommended currently) isn't damaging his kidneys.

Thanks for the continued thoughts and prayers.  Our student (whose been really awesome with Indie) just called and he's doing great again this morning so off to go visit our little man.

On a side note, has anyone used CareCredit in helping to take care of the financing of a sick dog?  Any positive/negative feedback?

Yippee! We love good news to start the weekend--and who knows, maybe the drugs are working quickly (or his body is really ready to respond). Sending lots more prayers and postive energy for continued good progress.

indiej

What's pretty strange is his improvements are way to early to be from the antibiotics (only had been on them less than 12 hours yesterday).  We are extremely happy over these developments, but also at a loss to explain how (not that we care as long as they continue!).  It could be Indie himself getting control over whatever has been plaguing him, the only real other change is his very quick drop of Pred, we are now something like 4 reductions in levels in less than 2 weeks.  I know for quickly suppressing the immune system its the drug of choice, and in that respect probably saved Indie's life more than a month ago, but I can't help but wonder how much of his current issues are directly related to long term high levels of Pred.

It IS the IMHA conundrum.   The big drugs DO save their lives but the side effects are fierce and can be, in and of themselves, life-threatening.

1. I know  you are using Marin & Denosyl but given that you are using a drug known to be hard on the kidneys why not TALK to them about using high dose milk thistle.  They aren't going to think you're crazy and I can give you MY vet's number (and you can get Amanda's vet's number from her i know) if your vets want to talk to them about the high dose milk thistle.  Running amok with the actual herb was the result of my vet's original discussion with me that high doses can actually help protect the kidneys.  I can give you Dr. Demer's email if you want (Dr. DiNatalel won't be available until Monday probably).-- the other good person to query would be Dr. Dodds.
2. If the antibiotic is inravenous, it may just be working faster BECAUSE the pred is reduced.  Pred is a drug that is a Jeckyl & Hyde == saving the life in one minute and then turning on it the next.  The pain and muscle spasming is fierce if that's the side effect plaguing him.  I'm convinced becuase of my OWN reactions to pred that it's something not given nearly enough credence.  And dogs are creatures of habit and they are **immediate** reactors -- so if moving a particular way caused extreme pain then they are going to be reluctant to do it again for fear of the same reaction.  And when muscle spasms are constantly threatening it's no mystery to me why they shut down.  BUT once the pred is reduced enough to stop provoking muscle spasming suddenly they feel like it's gonna be ok. 
3. He's also out of ICU and that one can have a huge mental impact on them.  I know it did Billyl
4.  Then, quite honestly,there is good old I-dog prayer and good thots.  The collective on here is ranges from all ends of the spiritual spectrum but there is something about the electrical connection that seems to defy logic.  I'm not going to question it when I've (and my dogs) been the beneficiary of it MANY times. Given that the phases of the moon (which we can't actively SEE nor are we aware of it most of the time) can actually hold sway over all the oceans and large bodies of water in the world -- I gave up aeons ago trying to always predict such things and instead I'm just happy for them *grin* 

indiej

On a side note, has anyone used CareCredit in helping to take care of the financing of a sick dog?  Any positive/negative feedback?

I know Megan used it for Pirate when he was sick and many others.  The interest is pretty high, but it's easy to obtain and most places take it.  I've seen it make the difference between yes and no for people (and their dogs).