Why is my puppy itching so bad?

    • Bronze
    Thanks Glenmar. I take it Callie is a Dr? At this point I don't know what could be changed since it's already on him and the Interceptor was given to him on Monday.
    • Gold Top Dog
    No shes not a doc, but there isn't much Callie doesn't know about all the oddball stuff dogs get.  She does rescue and I'm not sure Callie and David have ever OWNED a dog that came to them healthy.......
    • Gold Top Dog
    I think i would put the pup on a table with a whiyte paper underneath him, or a news paper and rub the heck olut of him...if little tiny jblack spots fall of then take a wet Qtip and and rub it on one of the psots--if the tip turns rusty or reddish  then  the pup has fleas...I have not read the other posts so this may  have been covered...it it is  not fleas, and the vet has checked for mites then it has to be  probably a food allergy...to what? would be only a guess but invariably a rapid occuring itch is from something in the food,or an aresol spray  or something like that...you would have to do an enlimiation diet to find out what...this probably the cause>> this and have have been covered but if you find an answer either post it or  e-mailme....hamdvet@comcast.net...hope you find out soon....Dvet (actually
    Davet. but iot got changed somewhere in line) 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Frontline will NOT kill sarcoptic mites.  The only 'topical' that will kill sarcops will be labelled that it does -- and about the only two I know of are Paramite Dip (which is an organophosphate and NOT good for small puppies) and Lyme Dip (gentler but still effective).
     
    I don't like Revolution and it doesn't have a good track record on sarcops.  Revolution goes on the skin and then goes into the blood stream from there -- but the mites have to BITE the dog to die.  And the Revolution stays in the body for weeks. (It's systemic which is honestly why i don't like it).  But I've heard a LOT of folks telling me lately that altho the vet tried to treat with Revolution it just didn't work.
     
    Interceptor WILL kill sarcops -- and it can be used more frequently than once a month but doesn't linger in the body. 
     
    A small pup like that will pick up sarcops easily -- the immune system is too immature to protect against them and you can even pick them up in your yard from wildlife.  Do deer, coon, foxes, etc. roam thru your yard?? 
     
    I will be honest tho -- and I know you say this breeder is 'reputable' -- but that is WAY TOO YOUNG ... in most states it is actually illegal to place a dog at 7 weeks old unless it's an orphaned litter or something.  I hope this dog has NOT been vaccinated yet -- because it is too young and the vaccine likely will not take at that age.  It's also going to cause the immune system to plunge.
     
    My point is you need to boost the immune system -- even once you get the sarcops 'gone' they can recur easily particularly if the dog is getting into wildlife sarcops. 
     
    Colostrum is a really good, easy thing to give -- 1000 mg twice a day (empty the caps into food -- it's not bad tasting and usually they like it). 
     
    No, I'm not a vet -- I've just done 'sick dog rescue' forever -- and yeah -- shhh, don't tell anybuddy, but Ms. Luna Tuna is a pretty healthy girl -- she's got a back like a suspension bridge so we're keeping her lean, but so far so good *smile*.  But I've always figured there must be an invisible neon sign above my house that says "Dogs with SKIN PROBLEMS -- C'MON DOWN!!"
    • Bronze
    So should I worry now? First yes we live in the country so we have all the wildlife going through our yard. He has had his 1st set of puppy shots a few days before we picked him up. He gets his next set on May 17th.
     
    Is the interceptor that you are referring to the heartworm pill? That's the interceptor that he was given.
     
    How do I boost the immune system?
    • Bronze
    What is also the difference between 7 weeks and 8 weeks. To me it's 7 days but it sounds more serious than that in puppy time. In WI most of the breeders that I spoke with let their dogs go to homes somewhere between 7 weeks and 8 weeks so to me this doesn't sound that bad.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Puppies are born deaf and blind because they are only in utero about 60 days -- they are literally born so immature that the eyes and ears can't function yet (the neural pathways into the ear don't complete until the same 11-14 days that the eyes take to mature).  They typically aren't weaned until they are 5-6 weeks old. 
     
    The learning that takes place after weaning is critical to things like bite-inhibition (where Mom and siblings correct the pups because "OUCH you bit me too hard!" either in play or attention-getting.  That time with Mom and sibs is critical in well-balanced behavior development.
     
    And honestly?  "state governments" aren't known for being particularly kind and gentle -- so the fact that in most states it is actually 'law' not to place dogs younger than 8 weeks tells you it is a pretty well-established veterinary concept that 8 weeks is a 'minimum'.  This translates into a HUGE monetary thing that means shelters have to KEEP puppies that are underage and can't place them ... or else euthanize them.  So trust me -- if there was any way that age requirement was at all popularly disputed state's would likely be more than glad to allow placement younger, but it's just such a well-established minimum age it's hard to argue with. Not ALL states, but the majority.  I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything 'illegal' at all -- just pointing out that 7 weeks is terribly young -- that hasn't given 'mom' any time at all to train those weaned pups on what is and is NOT acceptable puppy behavior. 
     
    And what difference is a week?  Given that their gestation period is only 60 days-- 7 days is more than 10% of development time.  Look at a human baby and see what a month and a half or so is in the development of a human baby?  And they are so much more developed when born than a pup it's not funny.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yep, I'm gonna back Callie on this one.  I don't let my fosters go until at least 10 weeks.  The OTHER reason breeders and shelters like them to go early is that they are cuter when they are littler.....even with a german shepherd they are still tiny little babies and they tug at the cute and helpless heartstrings.  Now, add to that that it's VERY expensive to properly raise a litter of puppies and the longer they stay, the more they cost.  Say my food costs per week are $50 for my litter.  Well, one less pup, extends that food to 8 days, 2 less to nine days, etc.  And of course, if they are still there at 12 weeks, they're gonna need another shot.
     
    The vaccine your pup got at 7 weeks is likely wasted.  Dr. Jean Dodds recommends vacinating (parvo and distemper only) at 9, 12 and between 16-20 weeks.  The SERIES isn't really needed.  You could keep a pup in a plastic bubble and not vaccinate until 16 weeks.....ONE shot provides the protection.  But, pups loose momma immunities between 8 and 15 weeks and there's no telling who lost it when without expensive blood work, so it's become the accepted course, and safer overall for the pups, to do the series.
     
    when a pup is still carrying mommas immunities, a vacine does nothing good.  Remember, this is modified live virus being injected into the pup, so it can cause a hit to the immature immune system. And that can lead to stuff like scarops (sp).  So vets (the good ones anyway) and breeders space those vaccines out according to Dr. Dodds recommendations to maximize protection and minimize potential damage.  But, ONLY one of those shots does the trick....only one is the magic bullet.  If a pup happens to be the one that hangs on to momma's immuniies for 15 weeks, he's been given TWO worthless vaccines.  And THAT's following Dr. Dodd's recommendations....some are still pushing starting vaccines at FIVE weeks.  Not only does that schedule call for at least TWO WASTED vaccines, it puts a lot of stress on the immune system.
     
    Now when I have a litter, I follow Dr. Dodd's like a Bible.  And I prefer that pups come BACK to me for the next vaccine.....that way I KNOW they aren't getting the giant combo shots that are soooo unneeded and so hard on the immune system, AND I get a chance to see my babies again!
     
    We have a dog who was "homegrown"....one of those opps litters and we got ONE pup. I "let" it happen by not preventing it, so I saw him as my lifetime responsibility.   I use Shadow as a yardstick a lot because he didn't HAVE littermates and didn't ever learn how to play with others nicely.  He's a wonderful boy, BUT, he's very vocal (honestly sometimes I think he's part beagle with the arrrrooooooo stuff all the time)  We worked HARD on bite inhibition but by golly when the first fosters came along THEY are the ones who finally taught him a thing or two about bite inhibition.  As an only it took Shadow a LOT longer to learn stuff.  And I recall his social development and then watch my fosters at 8 or 9 or 10 weeks and KNOW the importance of staying with the litter, cuz they just learn manners so much more quickly.
     
    And then there are those pesky fear stages.  The first one is between 7 and 10 weeks I think.  And it's really important that pups are WITH their litter and their momma's during that time.  When pups suddenly become afraid of little every day stuff, its important that they take their cues from momma dog and littermates and NOT from us reactive, wanna make it all better people, cuz we tend to reinforce the silly fears by coddling them.  True story...when Sheba was young, I knew nothing about fear stages.  We were camping and the guy in the motorhome next to ours was a jerk in all caps.  He didn't like dogs, complained about everything and was a real drunken looser.  He would do all sorts of stuff to upset Sheba....making faces at her, menacing her, flapping his cane in the air.  I didn't know better....now I have a reactive dog.  And a reactive GERMAN SHEPHERD can be a scarey thing.  She's the sweetest girl you'd ever want to meet, but she takes a LOT of management in public, and there are places we just flat avoid taking her.  Because she is so beautiful, and all white, people are drawn to her and won't always LISTEN and they scare her, so there are a lot of things SHE misses out on because of a drunk in a campground and my lack of knowledge.  Imagine how bad it would be if her FIRST fear stage had been mishandled.  And that's so easy to do with the too young pups.  You just want to pick them up and soothe them and chase all the scareys away for them, and that's exactly the WRONG thing to do.
     
    Common practice among local breeders doesn't make anything right.  But, please understand that I'm not jumping on YOU for taking the pup so early.  You didn't know better.  The breeder should have.  Often I think they get "stuck" in the rut of how they've always done things and see no reason to change.
     
    I truely would love to see TEN weeks as a minimum age for placing pups.  When you watch a litter develop you see such HUGE gains over the course of a couple days and gosh, over a couple weeks, it's leaps and bounds.  When I place pups at 10 plus weeks, they are usually pretty well potty trained, they are crate trained and they have a good solid start on leash training.  They've pretty well gotten past/been trained out of that obnoxious puppy nipping (I promise you, I have the foot and ankle scars to prove it), they are on a good schedule that just about any new parent can maintain, and they are more able to LEARN from their new parents.  And the greater chance I give them to suceed, the less chance that they are gonna come back to me because the new parents just can't handle them.
     
    So yeah, every DAY is huge, that extra week is GIGANTIC!
    • Gold Top Dog
    "How do I boost the immune system?"
     
      " Colostrum is a really good, easy thing to give -- 1000 mg twice a day (empty the caps into food -- it's not bad tasting and usually they like it).  "
     
     Besides Callie's suggestion, you're already helping by switching your puppy to Innova. Innova has a lot more meat than Nutro and less grain and will be better for your pup. I'll defer to the others about treatment for mange as I've been lucky enough not to have had that problem. My derm vet has said that the best product for fleas is Advantage, so if your pup has fleas the Revolution may take longer to get rid if them. The droppings the vet was referring to are probably flea droppings, which are small black specks. You may want to bring up the concerns Callie raised about the effectiveness of Revolution for treating sarcoptic mange to your vet. 
       
         "  Is the interceptor that you are referring to the heartworm pill? That's the interceptor that he was given"
     
        I'm sure that it is the same Interceptor she was referring to, but I use Interceptor too and there is nothing on the package or leaflet about killing mites that cause mange.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Interceptor as packaged for heartworm 'prevention' likely doesn't list all the various blood-feasting parasites it kills because the doseage would be different, but a vet would know.
     
    Interceptor is milbemycin, whereas HeartGuard is ivermectin.  BOTH of those drugs will kill blood feasting parasties like ear-mites, scarcoptic mange mites, hookworm and whipworm, among others.  But the dose to kill different types of parasites versus heartworm 'microfilaria' (which are the tiny pre-larval stage of heartworm) would all be completely different 'dose' amounts.  Interceptor tends to be packaged stronger than HeartGuard (because milbemycin is better tolerated by most dogs than ivermectin which has problems with herding and other breeds).
     
    So when they package the Interceptor (and Sentinel -- which is simply milbemycin with the old "Program" egg-inhibitor flea control drug added to it) they only package it for heartworm prevention which is going to be the most common use, but a vet's PDR will give the proper dose to deal with the other parasites.  Make sense now?? 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks for the explanation Callie.