Thor - Allergies, please help

    • Bronze

    Thor - Allergies, please help

    Hi everyone, I guess I was reading messages on the old link.  So here is the message I tried to post.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!   Shirlee
     
     
    Hi!
    My Yellow Lab, Thor, has terrible allergies. We live on a river, near the ocean and he is always in the water. We try to keep him out, but he loves it and will sneak out of the yard and run down (the river is baout 30 feet from the front door).
    I have tried eliminating wheat and corn, but it didn't help. Although, I keep him on the better food anyway. He licks his feet like crazy, and get ear infections. We have treated him with Oti-Clens wash, Otomax drops, antibiotics and even steroids. It will clear up, and then about a month after ceasing the meds, he will get an infection again. He also will get a rash on his elbows. I also have started using tea tree essential oil in a base of aloe vera liquid and bag balm on his feet. Not sure if it is helping or not, too soon to tell.
    I will also start giving him the probiotics that someone mentioned here. I take them myself, and never thought of it, especially after he has antibiotics! What is the dosing suggestion? He is about 110 pounds!
    My Samoyed was diabetic, and needed two injections daily along with a strict diet, so I do not mind doing some extra work if required, I would just love some suggestions!
    Thanks to everyone who has given so much inavluable info on this site!
     


    • Gold Top Dog
    Shirlee - What beautiful dogs you have.  I used to have a Samoyed and still miss her beautiful face.  I now have a lab and lab mix, so I'm pretty fond of thier faces too [:)].  I really feel for you as I'm going thru some of the same types of problems with my lab, Sassy.  Oddly enough though, she hasn't licked her feet in several months.  Not sure why because it used to be one of the worst problems.  So, perhaps it's because it's winter and she's not getting in our pool as much.  No idea, but what I found that really helped her with the yeasty paws was to rinse them off everytime she came in the house with a solution of strong black tea.  Callie had suggested it and it made sense.  I'm guessing the tannins in the tea help, but it could just be that the solution washes away all of the allergens.  You might try that.  I also found that frequent bathing with a medicated shampoo provided a lot of relief from the itching.  I used Nu Sal T, but I've seen others recommend Nova Pearls.  You might have to order them online if you can't find them in a local pet store.  Good luck with this - I know how frustrating it can be.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Hi Shirlee,
    First of all, Welcome to i-dog.

    Second, what exact food is he eating? I know with my Daisy that we eliminated corn and corn, but then we found out she was allergic to beef and chicken and lamb and rice. (through an elimination diet as well as blood-tests). When we got her on a duck/potato food then she was just fine and slowly improved.

    I agree with the probiotics, especially after a course of antibiotics. It's very good for the system. I don't know the dosing for such a big dog, but I give my dog human grade probiotics (I use Enzamatic Therapy Acidolphilus Pearls found at Whole foods). I give her one a day. I'd also try the B-Naturals site. I've heard from lots of people that Berte has some great stuff there. ([linkhttp://b-naturals.com/default.php]http://b-naturals.com/default.php[/link] )

    Have you ever thought of getting his thyroid checked? I do know that it tends to show up mainly in the skin and coat. My old dog, (also a Tzu) had low-thyroid and her symptoms was just like you're describing- the ear infections, the itchy skin, etc.

    If it is a yeast problem, in addition to bathing him in what Cathy suggested (which both Nu-Sal-T and Nova pearls are great products- Nu-Sal-T can be found- i think- at the local drug store made for people. I picked it up at Target. Nova Pearls can be found at Petco)  you can do a vinegar rinse. That's (i believe) 1 cup pure white vinegar to 1 gallon warm water. It's an after-bath rinse, and while it may smell like salad dressing, it does help neutralize the yeast in the coat. (I would not advise this if he has open oozing sores on his body, as it may sting)

    You could also try the allergy testing/allergy shots route. That is rather costly and time-consuming, but if it will help Thor, it's definitely worth while. We did that through a special veterinary dermatologist, and I'm not sure if a conventional vet (with no specialty) will do it.

    Good Luck!
    P.S. They are very beautiful dogs!
    • Gold Top Dog
    For me, after going thru all of this with Oliver the Great Dane, I have to tell you that the only thing I would do is get him to a skin specialist and find out what he is allergic to and don't waste any other time and money doing anything else first IF YOU CAN!  I say that because if Thor is anything like Ollie and so many that I read about , you will try this and try that, put him on this medication and it will help and then when he is finished the problem will flare up again, and then you will try another...and in the end for us and Ollie, nothing but a blood test to find out what he was allergic to (dust and grass) and shots to desensatize him from those allergies. They worked for him and had we done that first it would have saved several hundred dollars not to mention all the time he suffered with his allergies. He started right after getting his vaccinations and Heart Worm meds and we feel they weakened his immune system.
    I sure wish you good luck, its so hard going thru this, I know.
    Oh yeah, I wanted to tell you how much I love the picture of your two.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Welcome to the forum firstly.
     
    Secondly Callie is the best person to ask about allergies.

    This is what she provided me with my allergy prone dog/s. I hate to see dogs have to take such HUGE antibiotics PLUS antifungals (very very VERY hard on the liver). Clinamyacin can be really good on yeast/staph. Cipro is TOUGH to take -- and so is clindamycin.

    If I were totally honest (and I've fought this HUGE battle with one of mine and so many others -- so much yeast/staph, and major papules ALL over them and constant skin infection for the past year's) I would tell you to do two things in short order. Regular vets are going to simply throw antibiotics at this. And honestly it's possible that in order to get his 'level' you may have to do some of that.

    BUT frankly the two things I'd do a.s.a.p. are:

    1. Get the vet to test the thyroid thru either  thru a University that does this in your area at there vet doctor their. They use Dr.  Dodd's protocols strictly -- but some vets have an easier time swallowing sending the blood to a University rather than a holistic vet) I had Beau's thyroid tested SEVERAL times and it came back 'kinda low' but nothing low enough to indicate drugs. And the second time around, it was normal.  BUT when we tested his thyroid thru U of  G -- yep HE WAS LOW. Now dangerously low but definitely low enough to be a problem. It took FOUR months of thyroid meds (during which time HE had to be on clindamycin AND pred) to get the skin back 'level' -- but NOW wow -- I have a new dog with great skin!!!  With no Thyroid problems.

    2. The next thing is honestly to try a different *kind* of vet. Yeast/staphy skin -- particularly UNDER the body is, in Chinese medicine, called "internal dampness" and it is actually a SPLEEN problem. Papules on the top of the body is a different type of internal heat problem (infection) and the two together often require some herbal therapy. But the Oriental thinking sees this stuff SO differently. You aren't treating "staph" (bacteria) or "yeast" (fungus) -- you are treating the body systems that have allowed these to get out of control. So they try to bring the body back into balance RATHER than just attack the symptoms. 

    You might consider looking on the Chi-Institute website for their locator. Trying a holistic vet of this type is way different, and you may find the success we have. [linkhttp://www.chi-institute.com/]http://www.chi-institute.com/[/link] (and yeah, for those of you who 'collect' URLs -- that's different -- it used to be [linkhttp://www.tcvm.com/]http://www.tcvm.com/[/link] but they've changed it to chi-institute to reflect the name more easily).

    When it comes to allergies I get too scared -- allergies ARE an immune problem, and I don't like the correlation's I see between dogs that have allergies (particularly those taking allergy shots) and those that get cancer. I've been there done that with two dogs in the past two years and I'm not doing it again if I can help it. I'm not trying to pass on my 'hysteria' -- only wisdom, if that makes sense. Allergies are a dogs immune system that is compremised. Not normal. Correlations between cancer and dogs can be the foods they eat, and too many vaccines being built up.

    But all those drugs you are talking about are REALLY heavy-hitting. VERY tough on the gut, and VERY VERY tough on the liver.
     Turmeric Root, Black Catecbu, Grindelia Floral Buds and Lobelia, combined, protect the liver from circulating antigens and allergens, thereby reducing infections and skin or intestinal irritations associated with airborne, urea, and food related allergies. This combination supports the adrenal glands when epinephrine is needed by the body during inflammatory responses generated by allergens. It also is indicated for all disorders of hypersensitivity, inclusing allergies, asthma, dermatitis, irritable bowel syndrome, reactive arthritis, and food related digestive disorders.

    You can also add a nutritional supplement for her like Vitamin C - 1000 mg per 25lbs of body weight. If she has a problem with this, you can lower the dosage to suite her needs. Like 500 mg per 25lbs of body weight and so on.

    Vitamin A 2500 IU per 25lbs of body weight per day with Beta Carotene - 1200 IU per day and Vitamin E - 50 IU of d-Alpha to stimulate the immune system and tissue rejuvenation.

    Vitamin B- Complex - 50 mg to 100 mg per day regardless of size. Smaller pets utilize it faster.

    Antioxidants such as Selenium, Super Oxide Desmutase and Garlic.

    Omega-3 and Omega-6 Fatty Acids. Help reduce itch of dry skin. Or an oil in her food that has this fatty 3 acids.

    MSM-is a sulfur-based nutrient, which helps reduce tissue inflammation and promotes improved skin elasticity and coat condition. Some say it is too harsh for the animal. If it does not agree with him do not use it.

    Minerals such as Zinc - 5 mg per 25lbs of body weight, Chromium - 5mcg. per 25lbs. This helps build resistance and supports tissue repair.

    To answer your question of how come so many itchy dogs, it is poor quality commercial food by greedy manufacturers cutting corners.  
    Ingredients to avoid in an allergy prone dog are as follows: Greasy foods, Animal Byproducts, Grain Byproducts, Fillers, Yeast, and Sugar.  You can also put him on Fish, Rabbit, Venison in addition to Lamb diet.  Also change his cookies to something like Newman's own natural ingredients with NO wheat in them or you can make your own. I can give you several recipes if you would like them. All too often people forget to change the snacks when they change everything else. I would also change his over to the new food gradually, like, what ever he is on now, decrees by a 1/4 and add a 1/4 to replace the missing quarter for a few days, then 1/2 new and 1/2 old food for a week or so, then 3/4 new food and 1/4 of the old stuff for a few more days. Over a two to three week period. This way you do NOT upset the natural balance of her tummy when introducing new stuff. Things that are also good for him are things like sweet potatoes, baked or steamed in which you can add into her food as an extra treat. The Yucca root, is actually a vegetable which looks kind of like a potato in the frozen section of Wal Mart, you can also give him into her food. It not only serves as an anti inflammatory but soothes the itchies and is healthy for him.

    Beau gets, cooked veggies in his food once a week with things like what I mentioned and green beans, carrots, NO ONIONS, Or Mushrooms either. There is only one kind of Mushroom they can eat and that is limited amount, is the Shitakii mushroom. I even give him fruits to eat, like melon's, oranges, apples, NO GRAPES, they are toxic to a dog. Cranberry juice along with veggie juice is also good. As long as there is NO GRAPE JUICE in it. I love the vet's at the clinic, however, all they really want to do is DRUG therapy which only masks the problem and does NOT address the problem and all too often we as owners end up euthanizing the animal because the allergy shots, drugs, etc. STOP working and we cannot stand to see our furbabies suffer any more. 
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    [linkhttp://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/allergies.htm]http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/allergies.htm[/link]
     
    Please read this, maybe it will give you some help.  Great Dane Lady website  is my Doggy "Bible!" 
    • Gold Top Dog
    I would definitly try switching foods (depending on what you are feeding already) to a food with a completely different protein and carbohydrate.  Natural Balance sells and Duck and Potato and a Venison and Brown Rice and a Salmon and Sweet potato.  In my experience with dog allergies and working at a pet food store a dog is most likely allergic to the protein or carbohydrate source.  I had to do quite a bit of elimination diet to find out my dog is most likely allergic to any fowl. Good luck, it is very frustrating.
    • Gold Top Dog
         Hi Shirlee and welcome to i-dog. Your dogs are beautiful. After Thor gets in the river, do you dry his ears inside and out, and dry the area between his toes and his pads? If he gets water in his ears from swimming, that will cause ear infections, and if the skin between the toes and food pads stays wet, that is a breeding ground for yeast and bacteria. As much as he is in the water, that may be what's causing some of his problems. Keeping his ears dry by wiping them out is better for them than using an ear cleaner daily. The skin in a dog's ears is sensitive, and you shouldn't use an ear cleaner more than once a week unless your vet says it's okay.
         You probably should try an antihistamine and fatty acid supplement. Benedryl works for a lot of dogs, and Tavist(not Tavist D), works for Jessie. Here's a link with antihistamines for dogs and dosage:http://www.utskinvet.org/pdf/antihists.pdf    If you use a fatty acid supplement with the antihistamine,  it should make the antihistamine more effective.
         The rash on his elbows could be from contact with a weed he is sensitive to. Jessie has had one on her stomach from running through some weeds. I cleaned it with a chlorhexidine gluconate solution made by DermCare and that cleared it up. PLease keep us posted on Thor.