Stroke vs. Canine Vestibular Syndrome

Hi imashopper, welcome to the board.  My sister recently went through the exact same thing a few months ago with her 16 year old mini schnauzer.  We never knew for sure whether it was a stroke or vestibular, or possibly even a brain tumor.  She responded very well to Prednisone, but only if she was kept on the full dosage.  Anytime my sister tried to cut back on the dosage (as prescribed by the Vet) she would have a relapse.  They finally decided it was best to just keep her on the full dosage.  She only lived about for three months beyond her initial "event"...but she had a few other health problems anyway, including a weak heart.  For the most part, those months were a very happy and comfortable time for her.  We used a towel sling to help her walk until she was able to get back on her feet.  I'm sure that you'll get more info from others more experienced in this as soon as they see the post.  Good luck to you.

I'm sorry I didn't see your post earlier - how is it going?  I have recent experience with canine vestibular disorder in a 13 year old mixed pit bull.  The symptoms were sudden in onset and included head tilt, eye movements (nystagmus), inability to keep balance, and vomiting.  The first thing that came to my mind was stroke, but strokes are very rare in dogs, and stroke was not even mentioned when she was admitted to the ER.  Possible diagnoses included old dog vestibular disorder, middle/inner ear infection, and brain tumor.  I was told that the vomiting was from motion sickness.  In the ER she received fluids, a shot of dexamethasone, and Baytril.  She was released to me after two days with six days of Baytril, and within two weeks was completely recovered except for very slight head tilt, and possibly this will fully resolve.  I was told when she was admitted that if it was old dog vestibular that she would rapidly improve on their protocol, and she did.  Again, I apologize for the late response.

Hi,
I'm concerned that your vet could not diagnose vestibular syndrome right away.  It is kind of like a Vet 101 illness.
It certainly sounds like your lab has this syndrome.  My mother's dog had it, and I know of another person who had a lab who had this syndrome.  The dog can recover anywhere from one day to three weeks after onset.  My mother's dog had a severe case of it, and my mother had to feed her whipped, raw egg yolk (no whites) to keep her strength up... and it worked!  Also, valium was a great help to calm the dog (my mother could have used it too , and allow her to sleep and recover. 
She recovered almost fully in three weeks.  My mother's dog was unable to stand, walk, etc.  Her eyes had the wobble look, and her head had a very severe tilt.
I'm sure your lab will recover.  I know it is really scary, and I wish you all of the best. 
 

I would certainly get a second opinion. Head tilt, nystagmus, circling, and rolling are all signs associated with vestibular disease.

Hi There. My name is Corrine and I am a proud parent of a 13 year old pug. He is displaying all of the signs described here. Someone had mentioned steroids to assist in recovery. Can someone tell me what the benefits are and how it helps? I have an appoinment with a neuroligist tomorrow morning. Please help. Thanks

 Hi Corrine,

I'm sorry to hear that your sweet pug is having symptoms.  Just to clarify:  Whipped Egg Yolks - not whites- were what my mother fed her dog when she was unable to eat on her own.  The Yolks were raw and whipped up with a fork. (Raw egg whites are not good - the dog will often have loose, messy bowel movements.)  If your dog cannot eat the yolks on his/her own, then you can gently spoon or squirt them into the mouth.  It is a slow process so that the dog doesn't choke, but the yolks were a lifesaver.

My mother's dog became agitated with the condition and the Valium really helped to calm her and allow her to relax and sleep.  

Sending you good thoughts.  I hope your pug recovers very quickly!  Keep up posted!

Warm regards,

Maggie 

 

 

 

  

 

It can be difficult to tell the difference between vestibular and stroke -- and the flashing of the eyes (where the eyes flash left/right/left/right in rapid sequence) often is the defining issue.

It is ultimately an inner ear problem hence the steroid to reduce inflammation.  Sometimes the only real difference is told in whether or not they recover.  A stroke produces actual damage, whereas they will usually recover from "old dog vestibular" (which doesn't just happen to old dogs either).

When my Foxy had it he recovered from the first bout (which was in November) but did not from the second (which was in the end of February).  At that point his body just gave up (he was 19). 

Be **VERY** prepared for the side effects of the prednisone and ask your vet if you can also give something like milk thistle (or even Marin or Denosyl if your vet isn't a holistic vet) to counteract the side effects on theh liver of the pred.

pred causes a super big stress on the kidneys and has other side effects.  You must NOT just 'stop' the pred.  It is addictive to the body (you may know this -- and maybe that's why you're asking but for the benefit of anyone who doesn't I wanted to mention this). 

They become VERY afraid during old dog vestibular.  Often something to relax them is necessary.  I used valerian root on Foxy.  Valium is also used.  But I will never forget the morning he woke up -- he actually woke ME up during the night.  He had gotten so disoriented he walked himself into such a tight circle all his muscles spasmed.  It took us hours to massage him enough so he could even lie down. 

good luck -- feel free to email me if you want more help.  This is a very OLD thread so most of the original posters may not be around.

 Just to clarify, for those who don't know - nystagmus, or the rolling of the eyes, is often seen in vestibular syndrome, and tends to be the type where the eyes roll from left to right.  When you see a dog whose eyes roll up and down, that is often indicative of central nervous system issues.  You would want a vet with some experience to take a look at the dog and evaluate all the symptoms, and not just that.

Hi All!

I hope someone can help my Lady Bug and I. Lady was diagnosed 5 days ago with CVD. I know that this disorder does take a while to improve. I am just worried because she has been laying out flat with occasionally sitting up on her right side today. We have tried the whole towel sling thing but she keeps putting her legs in "superman" (front & back legs straight out in front) position when we pick her up. When I do have someone to help me hold her up I keep trying to place her legs where they need to be but she wont bear any weight. Therefore we are unable to go outside and go potty because she would just lay out flat on the ground. I feel horrible because I don't want to draw this out if she is never going to be able to walk again. This is THE hardest thing I have had to do with my pet. I even worried as a vet assistant for 4 years and never saw one of these cases come along.  Any help at all would be greatly appreciated! I keep praying and it seems like she takes one step forward and 2 back :(

@EmilyFreitag

Hi All!

I hope someone can help my Lady Bug and I. Lady was diagnosed 5 days ago with CVD. I know that this disorder does take a while to improve. I am just worried because she has been laying out flat with occasionally sitting up on her right side today. We have tried the whole towel sling thing but she keeps putting her legs in "superman" (front & back legs straight out in front) position when we pick her up. When I do have someone to help me hold her up I keep trying to place her legs where they need to be but she wont bear any weight. Therefore we are unable to go outside and go potty because she would just lay out flat on the ground. I feel horrible because I don't want to draw this out if she is never going to be able to walk again. This is THE hardest thing I have had to do with my pet. I even worried as a vet assistant for 4 years and never saw one of these cases come along. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated! I keep praying and it seems like she takes one step forward and 2 back :(

Emily -- you've posted at the bottom of a really old thread from 2008.  However -- that said the disease doesn't change.

To be  honest this doesn't sound old vestibular disease.  In vestibular disease typically they are able to stand up  but will walk in circles.  If her motor ability is that impaired then to be honest, I'm going to tell you to go to your state's (or the nearest) vet school.  Usually FAR FAR cheaper than a specialist and they are typically incredible at diagnostics.

If it's a stroke you need to know the range of impairment and what's going on (i.e., is it simply a stroke or is there s blood clot looming).  

In any event -- I've experienced this in my own dogs and this, at the very least, is not "typical" of vestibular disease.

That said -- you can manage a dog who's had a stroke -- and there may be some improvement with some physical therapy -- but again, you need a vet school to help you with that.  If you will let me know where abouts you are, I may be able to help direct you if you are unsure where to go.

 Hi Emily ; welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that your sweet girl is having problems. It can take a few weeks for symptoms of CVD to resolve but it seems like you should have seen some improvement after 5 days. Does your vet know she still can't walk?  Callie mentioned strokes; the symptoms are similar to CVD . Jessie had a stroke shortly after she turned 13.  My vet thought it was CVD. She was walking normally within a few days but had a permanent slight head tilt. She was fine until 7 months later when she had another one. My vet thought it was another episode of CVD but I asked him for a referral to see a neurologist at a vet teaching hospital. The neurologist  said she probably had a brain tumor and recommended an MRI. Fortunately, there was nothing on the MRI so he looked for other causes for her symptoms. She was found to be hypercoagulable and was put on a low dose of Plavix. It took a few months to find the right dose and she had another stroke during that time but it was very mild.  After that she never had another one. The blood test to determine the amount of Plavix she needed only cost $50, and I got the generic of Plavix at WalMart, so treatment wasn't very expensive. I don't know how common strokes are in dogs, and how likely it would be that Lady Bug had one. I would recommend letting your vet know how she's doing and discuss your concerns with them. You'll be in my prayers; please keep us posted.

@jessies_mom

Hi Emily ; welcome to the forum. I'm sorry that your sweet girl is having problems. It can take a few weeks for symptoms of CVD to resolve but it seems like you should have seen some improvement after 5 days. Does your vet know she still can't walk? Callie mentioned strokes; the symptoms are similar to CVD . Jessie had a stroke shortly after she turned 13. My vet thought it was CVD. She was walking normally within a few days but had a permanent slight head tilt. She was fine until 7 months later when she had another one. My vet thought it was another episode of CVD but I asked him for a referral to see a neurologist at a vet teaching hospital. The neurologist said she probably had a brain tumor and recommended an MRI. Fortunately, there was nothing on the MRI so he looked for other causes for her symptoms. She was found to be hypercoagulable and was put on a low dose of Plavix. It took a few months to find the right dose and she had another stroke during that time but it was very mild. After that she never had another one. The blood test to determine the amount of Plavix she needed only cost $50, and I got the generic of Plavix at WalMart, so treatment wasn't very expensive. I don't know how common strokes are in dogs, and how likely it would be that Lady Bug had one. I would recommend letting your vet know how she's doing and discuss your concerns with them. You'll be in my prayers; please keep us posted.

It is really tough to diagnose --- I've had dogs with strokes ... and Vertibular ... not easy.  but from your email to me, it does sound more like vestibular than it did in your post.  

They get VERY scared.  I will never ever forget the morning I found Foxy.  He'd turned himself in circles most of the night and NEVER even moaned.  When I picked him up he was literally rigid he'd wound his muscles SO tightly.  I know HE thot he was dying. and I wouldn't let him think that.  

Keep working with him .. AND if it doesn't resolve -- I'm still with Jessie=s_Mom -- going to a vet school for a complete diagnosis?  There isn't anything better.