ticks

I am so sorry about your Newf. and you are right every products has it's reactions because of the chemicals.  My dog is no longer with us after using Frontline. 

Hello Lovenewfies and Patt []

I am so sorry to hear about your bad experiences, and I do not even want to think about losing a dog. [sm=cry.gif]

Thank you for sharing those expriences that illustrate this important point: every product has a non-negligible risk, and therefore ought to be used as little as possible. K9 Adv and Frontline are generally among the safest to use, but neither is free of immediate and cumulative side effects. Therefore I advise to use it only when the tick load gets higher than one or two per month.

As an aside, if one uses a new product and is not quite sure of the dogs reaction to it, one could use a half-dose and see if anything abnormal happens.

Regarding humans, there are of course a wide variety of 'grandma-recipes', but only very few things that you can buy and that will give reliable protection (DEED, an ingredient in many anti-tick products, works... somewhat.. but is also not too healthy - if that needs any mentioning ). The major reason for this is btw that it is not completely clear to what chemical compounds or rather mix of chemical compound ticks are attracted to. While we have a rough idea, two fellow students of mine wrote their PHD thesis on this issue with their cumulative work over 7 years (one now keeps working on it at Bayer) so far showing little applicable results (they would never put it that way though [] ), we do not know exactly what mix react with exactly what receptors - a precondition for fabricating targeted countermeasures. Also, that you attract more ticks than your dog, if both do exactly the same (which would btw mean you should go crawling on all four! [] ) is not very surprising. Many people think that dogs are tick magnets because they are more likely to have them on them than we do. Well, in fact you attract ticks more - as all humans do - simply because we transpire more (it is mostly some parts of the chemical coctail in sweat that attracts ticks). We do find more ticks on dogs, however, because they tend to be lower to the ground, run into brush and high grass, generally move around more than we do, have great hair to hold on to, and so forth.

Let us hope someone will find something soon! []

There have been past discussions about the dangers of K9 Advantix. I remember when I first starting coming here over a year ago I was warned never to use it. Maybe if you search back in the archives you can find these discussions (if you want).

Why not just spray your pet with a natural product that repels ticks? That way you won't be applying chemicals to your dog. I am considering doing that this year. There are many natural products to choose from out there (google it). Or pm Anne and ask for what she recommends.

[sm=2cents.gif]

so what do you  say is this best   way to keep ticks away

Hello mini-mom []

I think I have to disagree somewhat here; let me explain:

Somewhere in one of these recent threads on tick control I also pointed out that the popular belief in "natural products" is a fallacy in terms and idea. A great number of FDA approved medications (for pets and humans) are pure "natural products", as are many deadly venoms or potent drugs. Natural products are, of course, also "chemicals".

Now, if you mean with "natural products" anything that is not packaged and sold by some big corporation, you should be aware of a number of things. First off, those Grandma prescriptions do not work as well and reliable as those fabricated by the chemical industy - self-interested as that industry is, they otherwise would simply incorporate them into their mixes, and sell us for 30$ what costs them 1 cent to grow. []

Secondly, as outlined above, all those home-made or over-the-counter sprays, ointments, baths, and whatnot are full of chemicals, which can potentially be harmful. Nature and natural does in no way equal healthy.

Lastly, whereas the mix in quality products is well balanced and diligently measured according to extensive trials (after all, precise dosages do matter), that is rarely the case for any of the home-made or over-the-counter concoctions. This increases the risk of under-dosage (not fully effective, even if in principal the substance might be) or overdosing (well, harming your pet).

There are of course also commercial products that claim to be "natural". For those most of the aforementioned: thousands of poisons are natural, the efficacy is doubtful and all peer-reviewed studies to date have shown some effect for some, but nowhere close to what good K9A or Frontline get, and all of them are full of chemicals (how else would they work?).

I could write some more on this, but before I either get to technical or drift into a treatise, let me just advise you to get a good product for the months with heavy tick loads (if you read my first posts on this topic, you will see that I am advocating usage of such products only at a must-have basis). Yes, there are possible side effects. But would it not be rather irrational to fully accept that about all medications for humans do have known possible side effects, but a product supposed to keep an animal safe from devastating Lyme disease ought not to? About every known pain killer for human use can cause severe illness and death. Nevertheless, I will use it. All immunizations can cause severe disease or death. Nevertheless, any responsible parent will have their children vaccinated against a dangerous disease. There are people who would recommend some tea, spray, or ointment in lieu of that, but I will neither gamble like this with a childs life, nor with that of a dog or my own.

Strychnine and Curare are completely natural, "chemical" free products. Want a sip? []

Puppyluvr I apologize to you -- your simple question has spawned a battle ground that is totally unhelpful to you, and n between all the long drawn out nastiness that has pervaded this thread, you keep trying to get a simple answer. 
 
The two best products commerically available are Frontline and Advantix.  Which is 'best' is going to depend on which you wind up having the best luck with. 
 
But in addition to using a monthly spot on you will need to go over your dog EVERY day feeling every inch of them to find a tick so you can remove it before it 'attaches'.  That's a royal pain to do but it will help.  It is when a tick attaches and 'feeds' (engorges is the lovely term) that it transmits disease.
 
I use more alternative treatments than nearly anyone -- and I'm pretty well versed in many different modalities, but if you live in a bad tick area, you probably are going to have to use chemicals, SIMPLY because altho they are heinous and most of us don't like them, the alernative is that ticks and fleas spread disease -- DANGEROUS disease.  So use what you have to and keep the amounts as minimal as you have to in order to have them work.
 
Good luck.  you MIGHT find Frontline Spray (which IS more toxic, but which also is cheaper and may be more effective for you) easier as a compromise.  It's not friendly stuff -- but it works.  I prefer Frontline 'spot on' -- and I don't like Advantix (for a lot of reasons -- mostly because I don't like how it was tested), but it does work.
 
Good luck -- I'm sorry you've had to wade thru all of this and still not feel like you got an answer.  Ticks are a frustrating topic for all of us I think.  They aren't just 'gross' -- they are dangerous, so if they are a problem for you then sometimes we have to do what we HAVE to do in order to protect our animals. 
 
As a person who uses herbals, homeopathics, acupuncture and all manners of holistic stuff, not just on my dogs but on ME, I hate, loathe and despise having to use chemicals. But I'm in a high risk area, so I'll do what I gotta to protect my 'kids'.  I don't like it, but I do it. 
 
Given that most folks on here live in a wide difference in area -- it's not easy to say "which is best" simply because what might work 'best' in Maine, or Arizona, might not work at all in Florida or Texas.  Not that a or b is 'bad' -- just a big difference in what the needs are in one place over another.