Raised liver values - help!

Much depends on the state of the liver before you began treatment.  My pug literally has a genetically sucky liver -- her liver values can go high just by breathing.  And if there's a weak area there for your dog, then any meds for the bronchitis can elevate the liver values.  A lot of things may not be primarily dealt with by the liver but are secondarily and a weak liver then can't handle it.

When you used the SAM-e -- did you use regular human SAM-e tablets or caps??  Did you crush them or do anything to defeat the enteric coating??  Most human SAM-e is intended to digest n the small intestine.  Dogs don't do that well.  So typically you have to defeat that coating by crushing the pill  so it's better absorbed.

You will need to use some still doses of SAM-e to get the liver values down.  But I really like Cell Food SAM-e the best.  It's a liquid so it's more easily absorbed by their body ... and because the delivery system is more effective you're actually using "less" of it than otherwise.  Probably 15 - 20 drops twice a day in food (or "in" something a bit wet).  

Keep a very close eye on the bloodwork.  If there is a liver tumor then honestly nothing is going to prevent that from growing.  

However, you may want to go the next step further and do a cancer diet (no grain carbs -- meat, veggies).  The diet you are suggesting is pretty carb heavy.  I do a diet with about 50% meat and the rest veg and water, but I vary my veggies FAR more.  You don't want to use just one veggie -- there's no balance there.  Shoot - what I have cooking right now in the kitchen is kale, sweet potato, zucchini, okra, squashes (pumpkin and butternut), cabbage (red & white), peas.  Every week it is different.  Veg of different colors, above ground, below ground, "fruit of the vine" ... they all have different minerals and vitamins.   But you may want to omit the grain.  

You may want to check out Monica Segal's "K-9 Kitchen" Yahoo group.  That may help you get a better idea of what you want to add to your home-cooked food.

Cheers. I actually used the SAMe cellfood at the start. Have now begun again with what's left and considering Zentonil Advanced which is like Denamarin but with more milk thistle. I can get it through Amazon a lot cheaper than the vets.

The reason I was feeding meat cautiously was that I was trying to keep kidney values from going up. I was working to a ratio by volume of about 1/4 each of meat, veg , rice and sweet potato. But it seems you can fix one thing and skew something else..

Just now while we are at an acute stage she has been getting mainly white fish, cottage cheese, boiled egg, small amount of pasta.. So as not to tax the liver too much. Now re-introducing meat and veggies.

Fingers crossed there is no cancer. Have already decided not to go down any invasive route ie chemo or surgery.

Chrissy

You can use pretty high doses of SAM-e * milk thistle* -- the milk thistle aids liver function (as well as helping detox)  -- you can add SAM-e to the denamarin if you want.  My email is callieatcritturs@yahoo.com if I can help in any way.  Good luck!

Hi;  Remember me; I'm the one that told you about fluticasone. Jessie's been on it since January 2010 and her liver values haven't been affected so the cause of your girl's elevated values are likely from something else. Callie knows more about helping the liver but it looks like you're feeding her the right diet.  You should avoid feeding her red meat because it's highly ammongenic. I will keep your sweet girl in my thoughts and hope her values normalize soon.

Her ultrasound today showed no immediate sign of cancerous growth though they think there might be a blockage in her bile duct and most of the liver looks unhealthy.  So hepatitis of some description. We are still waiting for the results of the liver function test and I asked for the cortisol to be checked as well.

Vets prognosis is 3-6 months of reasonable quality of life. Of course a miracle might happen but I think we have to proceed on the basis of  there not being one.

Have been given a short course of Clavaseptin which the vet says might make her feel better. Plus Destolit to help with the bile. Plus will be giving SAMe and milk thistle and paying attention to diet.

She is surprisingly bright at the mo but has a poor appetite so the main task is to get nourishment into her.

((( hugs ))); I am very sorry for the poor prognosis. Hopefully the liver function tests will bring better news. Sending strong healing vibes for her.

Discuss with your vet if you'd like -- but dandelion is the herb that can really help bile duct problems.  I saw it in my pug (the one in my avatar) -- try 1-2 capsules twice a day for a month -- it can often help rectify a bile duct problem if it can be rectified.  Dandelion is often used for the liver, but it is truly most effective for bile duct problems.  Shouldn't clash with anything else.  I'm no vet, but I have seen it do amazing things.

Tailwagger, I’m so sorry to hear about your girl. It also really scares me because my Celia is going in for an ultrasound next week for elevated ATL, they’ve been around 250-300. They did an x-ray but it was inconclusive. I’m sitting here just thinking the worst. How old is your girl? Celia will be 2 yrs old in February so she is very young.

Calliecritturs, you said pugs have bad livers? Celia is a mix of cavalier spaniel and pug (as far as we can tell, she was an SPCA baby). Can you tell me more about this?

To give a small background, in September Celia got into some essential oil. Very, very little. She was chewing on a closed bottle and punctured the lid and maybe a drop got into her mouth. I don’t. We rushed her to vet because she was shaking and drooling. They kept her overnight with IV’s. Got her blood checked a month later, enzymes still high but significantly dropped so the vet was happy. In December, she was shaking and drooling again but we couldn’t find anything that she could have gotten into. She is a sneaky little thing as the oil previously was somewhere high up but not locked away and she was able to get at it. So we lock EVERYTHING away now and close doors. Took her back to the vet and her enzymes were high as well as her white blood cells. Nothing on the extra, they gave her some shots and antibiotics and she got a bland diet for a week. She’s been great. Eating well, being active, but every once in a while she has body tremors but she’s alert. Hopefully these aren’t focal seizures, the vet doesn’t think so. Anyway, took her back yesterday and her enzymes were still high hence the referral to the internist for an ultrasound.

I’m just really, really worried. My world would cave in if something happened to my pups this young. My other one is four years old and in good health. I want them both to die very old ladies.

Dog mom mine is approaching 14 - but as a border collie I was hoping she would go on a while yet. At the moment I am just grateful for every extra day.

But your Celia is a youngster and hopefully will overcome whatever is wrong (if anything). If they find anything suspect they might suggest a biopsy.  

Does she have to go somewhere special for the ultrasound? My vet does them at the surgery.

Wow, your collie has made it far in life. But you're right, a few more yrs would have been better for her breed. I'm so sorry this happened to her. I think I like dogs more than humans and I hate it when they suffer.

We were refered to an internist. I've been doing  a lot of research and I'm finding out that Celia's alt is on the low end of high enzyme (250) but it fluctuates up and down 50 pts. and her bilirubin is higher than normal which indicates a liver issue, not the liver being a symptom of something else. We have decided that if the ultrasound is inconclusive we are going to a dog nutritionalist and having them set out a plan for her with homemade food and supplements and try to see if that works first. I'm uncomfortable with going straight to surgery as that can make things worse, and she will be uncomfortable. As it is, you wouldn't be able to tell that anything is wrong with her , even when she has the tremors she's active. She eats fine, doesn't throw up, I mean just a normal pup. I should add about the shaking  that she's the kind of dog that when anyone comes through the door she gets so excited she shakes like crazy. Or  when I make her wait for a treat. So maybe she's just a high stung dog. She gets Wellness brand limited ingredients grain free food now and grain fee snacks, but that may be too high in protein for her now. The vet doesn't want to stop it yet because she's still young and needs the protein. If the diet changes aren't helping and her enzymes spike, we will do the biopsy and move forward from there. I'm probably making it worse on me with all the reading but I have to do something. Sitting around helpless with no knowledge of things makes me crazy.

Just an update - I discontinued the Destolit (ursodeoxycholic acid) which is often prescribed over here for dogs with liver conditions. She seemed to be worse on it. Interestingly I read that it is contraindicated if there is a suspected gall bladder blockage - which there is! So at the mo she is on SAMe and milk thistle - with smaller meals throughout the day and no red meat. I also supplement every other day with B complex, vitamin E and Alpha Lipoic Acid. She was eating better but still not good till I (cautiously) tried some raw food - including tripe. Wow what a change! She is once again underfoot while I am preparing food (as opposed to hiding) and she licks her bowl clean.

We'll see how we go but for now she is looking and acting really well. No nausea and normal bowel movements

Another update

We have been up and down in the last few months and Poppy's weight went down to below 16 kilos (from 18). But she was 17.4 at a recent weigh in and on 5/6 small meals a day and home cooking she is looking and acting great for a dog who is supposed to be dead. However it's very hot at the moment (for the UK that is) and I am having to keep her indoors during the day for all but toiletting as her breathing coming back from a walk is bad. In fact I'm waiting for the vet to let me know whether we can have an asthma type inhaler in addition to the inhaled fluticasone. The Clear Lungs formula didn't seem to make any difference way back and now I am frightened to give her extras because of her liver.

Current treatment Zentonyl or Denosyl plus extra milk thistle, B complex, B 12 shots, Vit E soluble and high epa fish oil. Just tryng Clavamox to see if it helps with her chest but will discontinue at the first sign of a bad reaction. Anyhow she is still going!

Awesome updating us, glad to hear she is still going. Stay strong!