Canine Bronchitis - eucalyptus oil for use with vapourizer?

 Hmm ... I use a lot of essential oils -- but to be honest?  No I would not.  Dogs can be **very** sensitive to scents any time -- I would be concerned that in "steam" you could cause way more irritation than you might help.

Even 'steam' is something I use very very **very** cautiously -- just running hot water in your shower so the room gets a tad steamy would be enough.  

I would be more prone to use something like slippery elm.  Are you using a holistic vet or doing alternative stuff on your own?  I've had a vet recommend the steam, but NOT the essential oil.  If you don't have a holistic vet it would be my suggestion to find one who does  TCVM - Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine -- acupuncture really helps with both lung congestion and breathing/coughing.  Dog's typically don't know how to have a productive cough -- unless it naturally happens.  There are a lot of herbs that will help lung congestion -- but in honesty most of them are best used by a vet.  Dogs can take ephedra but it's not easily available here without prescription.  Clear Lungs has a non-ephedra formula that is really very good tho and I've used that a lot.

 What has the vet given you for a cough medicine?  Most of the time they don't want to suppress a cough so they can get up whatever may come up with a cough.  But you don't want to wear them out with incessant coughing either.  I typically make a nice cough syrup out of slippery elm/water (add maybe 1 teas. slippery elm to 1/3 c. boiling water and whisk the lumps out).  Then add local honey (unfiltered is better) and the juice of a lemon to make a good consistency.

 Use a baby medicine syringe and fill it with the cough mixture -- put it behind the canine tooth and squirt slowly so it coats the throat as it goes down.

I know you've posted before -- but truly you MUST keep an eye on this. A bronchial cough **sounds** almost identical to a heart cough.  Even vets make that mistake.  I lost my Billy because a "substitute vet" thought he had kennel cough when it was, in fact, a sudden worsening of a heart problem.  

I had run to TWO different vets only to have both of them say "kennel cough" but it wasn't (and I was getting no where arguing).

My point is this - it can *change* from one to the other -- so don't be misled.  Canine bronchitis isn't common -- and I'm pretty sure it is likely allergy driven.  TCVM honestly would be a really good addition for you -- they treat the allergies more successfully and the herbs generally address that sort of lung inflammation better.

Now a vet *might* tell you to use the essential oil -- but I would be a bit surprised.   It's too easy to irritate.

 Hi Callie

I've used slippery elm but I read it could hinder the absorption of medication? 

Actually she has been managing quite well - apart from in this recent spell of hot sunny weather.  It probably doesn't help that it is high pollen. When the sun is up she only goes out for toiletting. We've become creatures of the night going out when the sun is down and in the early hours. 

Actually she hardly ever coughs - it might be better if she did. It's mostly the odd wheeze or raspy breathing on the exhale and she pants a lot if out in this weather. Originally they did a scope for LP and any obstructions. While she was under they X rayed her chest and found the lung damage and inflammation. She is also a bit barrel chested and tends to stand with the front legs splayed out a bit. That's when bronchitis was diagnosed. I suspect the cause might be a combination of allergy plus a while back I stripped a beam and while I tried to keep her out of the way, there was probably more dust around than I realised and maybe some fumes.

I have tried her on a couple of OTC antihistamines on the vets recommendation. One worked on the symptoms brilliantly but only for a few days. Plus the leaflets in both advise caution in the case of bronchitis  

What I'm concerned about is that there could be something else concurrent with the bronchitis which is not being addressed. There was nothing shown in blood tests and they said her heart sounded fine. But they never did a heartworm/lungworm test or a tracheal wash. She's on monthly Advocate whch is supposed to be preventative but occasionally she will pick up faeces in the fields before I can stop her and we have the usual run of wildlife.

I've given her a couple of steam treatments with the vaporizer followed by a bit of coupage. It could well be coincidence but that seems to have been beneficial. Though that was also started at the same time as a generous teaspoon of 30+ manuka honey in water 3 x a day. 

The closest holistic vet is about an hours drive away.  I've spoken to them on the 'phone but not been yet. Just now I'm waiting for some cooler weather before putting her in the car!

Cheers

Chrissy

 Ooof Chrissy - you are doing SO much that is great but oh Advocate is SUCH ***bad*** stuff.  It's moxidectin which was banned here in the US for a long time (it caused thousands of dog deaths before getting pulled).  The problem with it was that it was lingering in the body way longer than it should, but even more it was triggering AIHA/IMHA because it so disrupts the immune system.

It's now marketed here as Advantage-Multi -- but altho the FDA reluctantly ok'd it with the strong caution that it was not to be over-prescribed or given more frequently than labelled -- it's now being given weekly (and I've heard even more often) for things like demodectic mange, etc.  *sigh*.  I've just got too much history with it because of the work I do with AIHA/IMHA dogs.

 Slippery elm is pretty benign -- it's even used a lot with IMHA dogs who are on a ton of medication because it really doesn't inhibit absorption much.  It's a good anti-inflammatory for the gut and lungs -- if you are concerned about absorption don't give it the same time as you give antibiotics.  Generally it's my holstic vet's first "go to" to keep the stomach happy while reducing inflammation in the lungs and gut.

heart stuff can be tough to diagnose unless they do an actual heart work-up -- here most vets can do that in the office and then they send it via phone lines to a vet school to be read by a cardiologist.  There is so much overlapping between lungs/heart -- because they influence each other so highly (and the lungs put oxygen into the blood). 

The dog I had with the compromised lungs (she had been HUGELY heartworm positive - so much so that the parasites migrated to the lungs and caused huge holes to develop in the lung tissue which then became spots for moisture to pool) -- she was on both heart meds and lung stuff -- to reduce the moisture in the lungs.

 Socks coughed a lot -- any time she was nervous (only dog I ever had who "coughed" to ask to be let out *smile*), any time she was too hot, too cold, too tired, or just had been laying in one spot too long . and then she coughed most of the rest of the time too.

If you are already giving manuka honey, you could simply add slippery elm and lemon to that.  I use it as well -- not only does it have huge bacterial-fighting properties, but it's also more palatable than a lot of local honeys are.

I've used steam many times -- and I *do* use essential oils that are anti-inflammatory (peppermint and wintergreen).  But I just wouldn't combine it with the steam because I'd be a bit afraid it would irritate.  

Thanks Callie

I too am concerned about Advocat because of it's systemic action - especially at the moment when her health is compromised - and I have been looking for a kinder alternative. In fact she is due her annual vaccination and I am not too sure about that either. It's not as if she has stays in kennels or mixes much with other dogs. Most vets will happily pump your pet full of meds and charge you handsomely for it.

I had stopped with the Clear Lungs but she is back on it.

As for the honey I've only just managed to source a product which is both raw unfiltered and manuka - so the best of both worlds.

I've given the slippery elm with honey before. Apart from anything else, it gives it some flavour.  I'm fortunate in that this dog will eat/drink anything! I'lI go back to it and just make sure I'm not giving at the same time as doses of other things.

I'm also looking at ubiquinol/CQ10.  

I should add that I also give salmon oil for dogs with occasional vitamin E - as apparently the former can deplete the second.

Cheers Chrissy

 There isn't enough money in the world to make me use Advocate.  Not ever.  Ivermectin is much better -- even if you have to buy it farm strength and dose it yourself.  It's in and out of the body in 24 hours.  You can't use it on a herding dog ... but it's better than moxydectin.

Ms. Socks took Clear Lungs for 7 years.  (and it was the one with the ephedra in it)  

Another thing you could add would be shishandra -- that helps reduce the moisture in the lungs too.

Co-Q-10 is good to get oxygen tot he heart - it's not a big immune booster.  

Can you get SAM-e? Particularly the Cell Foods brand is liquid and it is really great to help reduce the liver numbers.It's Vit A and Vit E that are co-dependant -- used alone they will deplete the other out of the system so they need to be paired

Hi,

I think it would be best if you take your dog to a Vet. I am not sure that steam therapy would work for your dog well.

 It was actually the vet who suggested some steam therapy (and something like Olbas oil). But we are due another visit and I'll check again.

I've used Advocat for years with no apparent ill effect - for flea control mainly as well as some worms. But I'm reluctant to continue as she is more fragile now. As for ivermectin, I believe she would have to be tested before use as it can be toxic to collies.

 no -- you MUST not use it on a collie -- I didn't realize.  I think I said above "not for herding dogs".  That does make it far more difficult but I would not use the moxidectin.  I personally knew too many who died from it.