So Grey has hip dysplasia...

    • Gold Top Dog

    So Grey has hip dysplasia...

    I took Grey and Junior to the vet on Thursday. I saw a new vet (at the same clinic) because my regular two were out. Grey has never really been a good patient. In fact, the last couple of times, he's had to wear the Hannibal Lecter-style Muzzle of Shame because he growls and shows his teeth. So he's kind of a jerk at the vet's lol. Anyway, this vet noticed Grey had a lot of resistance in his left leg, which I noticed too the night before while giving him a haircut. Anyway, after some wrestling and one "slight" sedative later (the dog was baked lol), x-rays revealed arthritis and hip dysplasia, which the vet said he's had since he was a puppy (???). Now, even though he's 12, Grey's still the kind of dog who runs so fast and is so strong that he regularly plows down all the other dogs except for Tar, who's an ox. So I've never seen him limp or have problems running. I'm pretty sure he still can run faster than my other dogs. Although he's not showing signs of discomfort and his condition isn't severe, the vet ran through several options for the future, like laser therapy and injections of joint supplements. The vet also mentioned Hill's J/D, but I didn't want to interrupt him with "I'm not feeding my dog corn." So given these conditions, does anyone have suggestions for supplements (particular brands, what to look for specifically, etc.)? I gave Brown glucosamine forever, but it was never a particular brand or dog-specific. I still have some leftover, along with some of his Evo Senior, which I will be switching Grey to for its high protein content. I want to give him the most effective products for joint issues, and I'd like some input.
    • Gold Top Dog

     My RB Marlin also had hip dysplasia.  As I understand it, this is something they are born with.  Over time, because of the problem, arthritis sets in.  Things you 'may' notice in an active dog:

    - does a 'sloppy' sit, does not sit in a formal posture, because the arthritis hurts to do that

    - or does not like to sit at all; may do a 'bow' to lie down, rather than sit and then drop the front end

    - not as keen to jump, up on the sofa, or the bed, or over a log, more likely to settle in a pet bed on the floor, or romp around the downed tree

     - has trouble going UP stairs; going down doesn't seem to be as much of an issue

    - if the dog used to be one to 'dance' on his hind legs for a treat, he doesn't do that now

     

    I never pursued anything re the hip dysplasia itself. I only addressed the arthritis.  Marlin responded really well to Adequan.  This is a monthly injection of glucosamine, chondroitin, joint fluid. 

    There is a 'start up' period of one month during which the dog gets 2 shots per week.  After that, the maintenance dose is generally one shot per month. This is NOT a shot into the joint, like a cortisone shot for a human; this is just your basic muscle injection, goes in the hind quarters, you alternate which side you give the shot.  I was already used to giving shots (my Dad is diabetic and I had to give him his insulin shots), so the vet tech taught me how to give the shot, how to avoid the major nerve in the thigh, and I was able to give the shots here at home.  My vet insisted we go in for the start up shots, to ensure the dog got started properly, then I took over at home.  

    If you go this route, get a script for Adequan (canine) from the vet, and order the vials from Drs. Foster & Smith online, it is LOTS cheaper than getting the vials from your vet.  I was lucky, my vet gave me 12 syringes at a time, for no charge, so I didn't have to worry about getting those.  Check with other online certified pet pharmacies for pricing, but I've found Foster & Smith the best price.

    Marlin had reached the point that he could not get up on the sofa, so he would whine until one of us gave him an elevator lift.  Once he was on the maintenance dose, he could get up on the sofa himself about 20 minutes after his shot.  Three or 4 days prior to his next shot, he'd start having issues getting up on the sofa again, and he would start the whine and fuss.  I always marked the calendar so I'd know when his shot was due, so  I was not relying on him being uncomfortable to remind me, but it was interesting that I could tell the date was near.  Marlin was on Adequan for the last 4 years of his life, and it worked fine until the last 3 or 4 months.  At that point I kept it up because he was still getting SOME benefit, just not a full month.

     Currently, Willy also has hip dysplasia and started on Adequan shots last Fall.  He is also noticeably improved with this.  Willy, however, will NOT allow me to give him the shot -- he bites me!  So we go in once a month for a vet tech appointment.  Since I am bringing in my own Adequan (from Foster & Smith), this is an inexpensive $12.10 visit, for the tech to administer the shot with owner's meds.   I noticed Willy was not thrilled in Agility class and resisted doing jumps, which is how I came to get him x rayed.  He was fine with tunnels, weave poles, teeter, would avoid the A frame after doing it once or twice per class and A frame had been his all time favorite obstacle! so that was the clue.  He has always had the sloppiest "sit" I've ever seen, ha haa, and he seldom did a 'sit' preferring to do the bow and then drop the rear end.  I say 'always,' I mean the 4 years he has lived with me, he is a rescue, arrived here at age 6.5 years.

    I have also used Joint Care 3 supplements from Drs. Foster & Smith, I'm not diligent about it though.  I'll give for a week, then forget for a few days, rally and give it for 5 days, get busy and forget.   Most of my dogs just eat the tablets with their food.  Lacey will NOT take it, so I have to 'dose' her, like giving a medicine pill, wrapping it in peanut butter or something, opening her mouth and slipping it down her throat.  Don't know how Grey will do with that, with luck he will just eat it like most of mine do.  I think it is beef or chicken flavored, can't recall just now.

     

    Once I learned about his dysplasia, I came to 'hate' Rally Obedience -- there is so much 'sit,' sit SIT in those courses, and if your dog has an issue, you are just rubbing the joint over and over, and the arthritis can set in much earlier than it would otherwise.  Now that you know Grey has this, you should completely stop making him sit for a treat, while waiting for the food dish to go down, etc.   Develop a different routine for him.  Marlin did fine with 'wait' in a stand, while Willy has to go wait behind a baby gate or he is all over the place -- very food oriented ha haaa.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    My shepherd mix, Rex was recently diagnosed with mild hip dysplasia and moderate osteoarthritis.  His left hip is the worst.  He has been showing signs of pain and the x-rays revealed what I'd suspected.  I had them looked at by a radiologist in addition to the vet because the vet that looked at the xrays seemed clueless about the level of severity and started talking about a radical surgical treatment.  The radiologist and a vet friend agreed his case wasn't severe.

    Rex has been on Cosequin for several years and fish oil supplements (1000 mg once a day).  The vet was pushing some new joint supplement so I bought some and it's mostly glucosamine.  When I've used that up, I'll go back to the Cosequin.  He gets Carprofen (NSAID) once a day.  Half the recommended dose controls his pain.  Rex does limp and cry in pain without the NSAID. He also gets coconut oil.  That was started about six months ago for all my dogs. It's not expensive and I have no idea if it really helps with anything but the dogs love it. :)  I get it from the grocery store.

    I had blood work done so we can monitor his kidney and liver function and that will be repeated every six months or so.  He has had no gastrointestinal problems with the NSAID.  Many dogs never have any problems with NSAIDS, even long term, so don't get scared off using them.  Monitoring his kidney and liver function is important.  There are a lot of different NSAIDS available and dosages aren't set in stone and I started out with the full recommended dose and adjusted downward until I saw what was offering relief at the lowest possible dose.

    Staying active and keeping the muscles strong is good.  It sounds like Grey is in good shape and I intend to keep Rex active and in shape.  I keep my dogs lean too, is important.  I have some mild osteoarthritis and the more exercise I get the better I feel.  Good muscular support of the joints is a big part of staying pain free.

    Since Grey isn't a good patient at the vet I'd skip the Adequin unless the vet allows you to give the injections yourself.  Some vets do and some don't. Sounds like Grey's is a mild level of dysplasia that doesn't cause him pain to the point his activity is restricted.  My dogs get grain free food and I see no reason to change that because of the arthritis or hip dysplasia.  I've had several Labs with hip dysplasia of varying degrees of severity.  It's a manageable condition, without surgery, unless it's a very severe case.  That's my experience with hip dysplasia.  I'm sure others will chime in with their experience and advice. 

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     Yes, 2 good points, keep the weight on the slightly lean side to ease the 'burden' on the hips, that was also something my vet says to do.  And exercise - not the Agility I had Willy doing, we've stopped that, but walks, some are off leash so he can run if HE wants and stop when HE wants. 

    I take a baggie with half a hot dog, cut up in small bits, when Willy goes to the vet - for his Adequan shot or any other reason.  When I first got him, they had to muzzle him.  Now, he is so busy with his hot dog he doesn't even realize he is getting a shot.   Takes 2 of us, I'm doling out the hot dog as fast as I can, the tech is busy at the other end.  Thank you Callie for teaching me to ALWAYS have high value treats when any of mine goes to the vet - it has helped w/ all 4 of them so much!

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    • Gold Top Dog

     No experience with hip dysplasia but plenty of joint issues Confused

    Bugsy (105 lbs) takes (4) 1000 mg fish oil plus 200iu Vitamin E daily (might be 400iu can't recall)

    he is currently getting Osteo Biflex (this one I think LINK ) and has gotten a human Gluco/chondroitin daily

    I used equine MSM powder but that Osteo has MSM in it so that covers both the gluco/chond and MSM

    I have also used Nutrajoint powder that is supposed to help with cartilage 

    Of late I have been using fresh ginger and the spice turmeric added to his meals. Both are supposed to be anti-inflammatories. I can't be sure but the turmeric has been added in the last week or so and he's been feeling exceptionally well this week  - this could be natural healing process OR the turmeric.

    Despite all the orthopedic surgeries he doesn't have much arthritis when he should according to the docs.

    I keep him lean and active

    • Gold Top Dog

     I know many dog owners who buy the human glucosamine / chondroitin at Wally's World, to save money.  It's the same stuff, dose by weight.

    I see Busgy is on a equine item.  Adequan and many other drugs come formulated for equines, canines, etc.  For Adequan, I do know you can NOT use the equine version on a dog.  So heads up on that as you research items, too. 

    • Gold Top Dog
    The vet said that the injections were formulated for equines but given to dogs. I'm not sure of the name, however. When we go back to the vet, I'll get an appointment with one of my regulars. Should we get to the point of needing injections, I'm pretty certain they'd let me do it at home after the initial period. I'm glad he doesn't need that yet because they're $50 each, and the vet said he'd need two a week for a couple of weeks. Since last month, I've paid over $1000 in vet bills with Brown's final series of x-rays, blood work, vet visits, and subsequent euthanasia and then Junior popped into our lives needing vaccinations and heartworm treatment, which he starts next month. So that's another reason why I'm pretty excited that I can manage Grey's issues without the injections at the moment. I'm going to start researching the items you guys mentioned.
    • Gold Top Dog

     Here is the Adequan site:

     http://www.adequancanine.us/

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     I live with arthritis myself so I've tended to deliberately take dogs with arthritis issues in the past.  Adequan and Cosequin are both good products ... I just plain don't like the company (it's personal -- it has to do with how they do their "testing";).  But they are high quality products).

    What Jackie said about NSAIDs is very good -- and the periodic bloodwork really helps.  Personally I use milk thistle with NSAIDs (or with any drug processed by the liver).  It simply helps hedge your bets and I, personally, prefer to prevent a problem than treat it "after" (like an nsaid hurting the liver), but that's just me.  But given the stuff I've had to take for my own rheumatoid arthitis -- milk thistle is my friend.

    The thing about arthritis they never tell anyone is ... it builds.  So when you take an nsaid - you don't take it *just* when it hurts.  You take it every single day X times a day.  Because the nsaid literally continually works to keep that joint inflammation at a certain level (whatever it accomplishes in that body).  If you allow that inflammation to skyrocket (because you only give the NSAID when *you* the human see pain??  By then the pain is HUGE and it takes a lot more nsaid to get the pain level back down.  

    So you take the nsaid as often as it says ... and usually that way you can actually take *less* of it than you'd have to take to calm down a major inflammatory attack.  

     But your goal with arthritis is "maintenance" -- so you watch the dog and try to curb the activity BEFORE they hurt so bad they can't move.  Like Sandie said about Rally -- you don't let the dog do something like sit, sit, sit which is GOING to ramp up the pain. 

    You don't take a 3 mile walk and only turn back when the dog suddenly stops because it's too sore to go on.  If you touch the scruff of the neck frequently you can usually 'feel" tension there.  They will tense when they get sore.  So you stop a walk EARLIER.  

     In fact, I like a wagon with a dog with arthritis -- because then they can walk but then as soon as you sense they are starting to hurt -- let them ride for a while.  Let that joint calm down ... and then ... you can let them walk a bit further.  But if you allow them to continue to do some activity that is causing pain, you **WILL** increase inflammation.  

    We've just found a wagon is great -- they still get exercise, and yet it doesn't "stop" everything when pain commences.  

    I do the same thing with me -- I take a folding chair with me **everywhere** I go.  So I don't have to just avoid all the things we like to do -- but I'll walk a while and then sit.  Then walk a bit further.   It keeps me on my feet a lot longer.

    The other thing that REALLY helps is massage.  Dr. Fox has written a zillion books and they're all good.  But I particulalry like either pepermint or wintergreen essential oils (and I use them on ME too) -- I find they actually work better than the nsaids.  I do still use nsaids (on me and the dogs) but my first "go to" for pain relief is actually the topicals.

     AND Osteo Bi-Flex Knox Nutrajoint.  Not the same one Karen is talking about.  NutraJoint is simply ground bovine cartilage and calcium and a few trace minerals.  It literally helps the body *rebuild* cartilage.  

     With hip dysplasia part of the problem is that the illfitting joints wear away cartilage really fast.  Glucosamine/chondroitin ONLY work if there is still some connective tissue there TO hydrate.  NutraJoint literally helps the body re-build that cartilage.  You have to use it for about 3 months to see any help.  It's NOT a pain thing ... it's a supplement but what it changes is a more permanent change.  It's not intended at all as a pain reliever.

    I use it on me and I use it on the dogs.  For Grey's size I'd use maybe 1/3 scoop once a day in his food (or stir it in yogurt and add it to his food). It's not bad tasting -- almost tastes a bit milky.  It's incredible stuff -- 15 years ago I was walking everywhere with TWO canes trying to stay out of a wheelchair.  A friend who was a "supplement Queen" (one of those people who carries a little ziplock "snack" baggie with all her supplements for the day in it? *smile*) so I really wasn't inclined to listen to her. BUT it was relatively cheap and I was hurting SO badly.  I just started to use it (a scoop a day for a human) and didn't bother obsessing about it.

    A little over 2 1/2 months later, one day I got TO the bathroom and suddenly realized I didn't have my canes.  OMG -- what will I do??  Then suddenly I realized that I had walked without pain IN there by golly!!  It literally HAD helped me that muchl.

    I still use it on and off -- when I develop arthritis in a new joint I'll start using it again for a few months.  But I've seen it help an arthritic dog a whole lot.