Need advice... losing patchy spots of hair

It sounds like you have done lots of laundry recently.  What laundry soap do you use? Did you know many people and humans are allergic to Tide?  The best laundry cleaner to use is soap nuts, which you can buy online or via a co-op.

 I would think about allergens based on the photos.  Have you changed foods recently?   And oatmeal based shampoo may help.  Have you changed a piece of furniture he uses, sofa, dog bed?  Those are the sorts of things to consider.

AllAboutTheAPBT

So about 2 months ago the dogs got some fleas. I went through the process of changing their bedding a lot, vacuuming, combing, and used k9 advantix. Eventually I got it under control and haven't noticed anymore fleas. Recently Gotti has been licking/chewing the area by the base of his tail. I ran the flea comb through him but no sign of fleas. He is biting this area a lot and starting to create bald patches. I've noticed his skin is sensitive - when we pet him he acts like we're hitting  ticklish spot but it's everywhere!

The skin at the bald spots is not red, immflamed, or oozing, just bald.

I wonder if this is not a flea related thing but more of a skin condition. Any suggestions? Should I try a shampoo? Feed supplement? Or could he have this irritation from the fleas?   

Here's what it looks like, I know kind of hard ot see in the pics but at least you can have an idea....

THANKS!!!

PARTICULARLY   "The skin at the bald spots is not red, immflamed, or oozing, just bald."

This is very likely flea allergy dermatitis. (this started with a flea problem)

Flea allergy dermatitis is not "tons" of fleas.  All it takes is ONE bite from ONE flea.  Literally the dog is "allergic" to the flea saliva.  When the flea bites that one time it causes a toxic reaction which causes the red, sore, oozy, crusty problem.  it's unlike any other allergy (but it is one of the four main "types" of allergies -- atopic, food, contact, and ... flea allergy!)

Gotta go to the vet -- tell them this started with a short-lived flea problem.  He'll probably have to be on prednisone for a while (and maybe an antibiotic for the sores).  It is honestly THE only thing that will correct it (you will want to give milk thistle while he's taking the pred - it will save the liver). 

Whatever you use for fleas -- do **NOT** use something where the flea has to 'bite' the dog to die.  Literally all it takes is ONE bite and it will cause the poor dog grief for months.  The areas that have broken out will crawl further up the back (for some reason flea allergy dermatitis ***always*** starts at the base of the tail -- and successive times of the dog getting it can be worse (it's like they become more "allergic" in a way). 

It's tough to deal with ... my old Prissy had flea allergy dermatitis.  Thankfully it's pretty rare but it is difficult for an owner to deal with.  But you gotta go to the vet -- the only thing that will stop the trauma usually is prednisone or a shot of dex (usually that's followed by oral pred).

Can a dog develop the allergy to flea saliva? Because it has been years, but Gotti did have some other flea infestations but never a reaction like this.

I did switch their food within the last 2 months and after I posted this I started to think if the timing correlated with this butt biting. I can't remember specifically, but it's all within the same general time span. My guys ate Nature's Variety Prarie for years and I switched to TOTW. The main reason I switched was becasue I started going to Tractor Supply to get my horse feed and they cary TOTW but not NVP. The last bag is almost gone. Maybe I'll go back to the old food.

I'll call the vet Monday.

AllAboutTheAPBT

Can a dog develop the allergy to flea saliva? Because it has been years, but Gotti did have some other flea infestations but never a reaction like this.

ABSOLUTELY -- and dogs naturally tend to develop more allergies as they age **anyway** -- but it can be the same with people.  All of a sudden out of the clear blue sky (ok ok ok - menopause *sigh*) about 10 years ago I developed this mega allergy to fresh basil.  I'm ok if it's **cooked** in food (like spaghetti sauce) IF I take Benedryl.  But otherwise oh ... my ... gosh -- and it worsens as time has passed.

Allergies are hugely tied to immune system stuff -- so yes, there could be a food tie- in (I'm not thinking so much of "food allergies" but particularly if something is missing in the diet that *this* dog needed, OR if there are things in the new food not tolerated well that are maybe not full-blown allergens but ARE sensitivities.   It's sort of like if you have a pail that maybe leaks a little bit -- BUT it sits under the corner of the roof so it gets run-off AND it's under the leaky spigot so it gets water from there, and someone parked the end of the hose in there and THAT is from a different water source but it's ALL "different" things contributing to filling this pail up!!

Some of ti leaks out -- but not enough to keep the pail from over-flowing at certain times (like rainy season). 

But when it all "runs over" -- it's like allergies that build from several sources -- food sensitivities, atopic (inhaled) allergies that have been there for a while but aren't enough on their own to cause a problem. 

BUT suddenly you add something to the mix -- like flea bites -- and where if everything else was "ok" the immune system may be able to handle it -- but if we've got fall hayfever (leaf pollen/dust, dust mites from the heat being on/dry inside) AND a food switch AND a reaction to the flea NOW you have a recipe for this body to be more sensitive than it was before.

 The problem is -- once the body reacts to something like that it tends to carry on with it. 
Somehow I can never go back to not being allergic to basil -- and in fact, as time passes I'm MORE apt to have allergic reactions to other things (like fresh parsley - which is somehow very "like" basil in it's chemical composition -- and in general I'm more prone to allergic reactions to all sorts of weird things (antibiotics, various foods, yuck!!!)

What you described above is SO typical of flea allergy dermatitis.  It pretty much always starts at the base of the tail -- WHY?  No one seems to know, but it **is** where it starts (I've seen it myself on dogs I've had -- it's almost weird how it starts *there*).  But then you get this combination of weird hairless patches and full blown sore/crusty/nasty skin. 

But like that bucket filling up with water -- some of it is hose water, some of it is rain water, some of it is maybe "re-claimed water" from the city -- but it doesn't matter because once it's in the bucket it's a mess. 

Same thing with allergies -- a dog may have atopic allergies all along -- but because the dog is relatively healthy and it's only 'seasonal' -- it's no big deal.  But THEN something punches the immune system's buttons (like a food change **with** flea bites **with** variouis atopic allergies?  And you've got this lovely recipe for reactions. 

Are you seeing paw-licking?  head-shaking or itchy ears (or even redness inside the ears) -- meaning, you may see all sorts of other things that aren't horrible by themselves, but add them all together and it's a picture of allergy.

Thanks so much for all the helpful information (This is why I always come to these boards first with a question! )

We washed Gotti tonight with a shampoo that is supposed to help with dry/itchy skin. It is called Happy Jack, got it from Tractor Supply yesterday. Seems to help.

Ahh, now I'm kicking myself for switching up the food. I also wanted to take a break from the garlic supplement I feed them and maybe that change also contributed to the allergy kicking in. This is slightly off topic but here's a question about the garlic. I have fed garlic supplements  for years and had great results. I was reading something that said garlic can be harmful in some cases and it may be good to take periodic breaks from it. So that is what prompted me to let the garlic run out. I figured I'd start it up again in late winter. Ever heard of that? I know garlic can be controversial but like I said I have seen great results so I like it.

Gotti is my husbands dog (well he had him before we met), and he's been waving his finger at me complaining if it's not broke why fix it?! LOL I guess he's right, I shouldn't have switched the food, but he's not the one going a million different places on the weekend! It's annoying to get horse food one place and dog food another.... oh well, I gotta do what's best for my pups!

And Gotti has always been the easy feeder. It's Luna who prompted me to start doing research and feeding high quality foods years ago because of her allergies. *sigh* always something!

Thanks again. I'm gonna wait a few more days and see if there's any change, and if it gets worse or no better... off to the vet.

AllAboutTheAPBT

We washed Gotti tonight with a shampoo that is supposed to help with dry/itchy skin. It is called Happy Jack, got it from Tractor Supply yesterday. Seems to help.

My problem with Happy Jack is the company -- they make wild claims about helping "mange" but their website is just chock-full of incredibly erroneous crap (they simply equate demodex with sarcops and claim to 'cure' all kinds of "mange" which is just such crap!) *sigh*  I wouldn't spend money on their stuff if I was hogtied LOL -- er ... gee, ask me and I'll tell you how I really feel!! 

AllAboutTheAPBT

This is slightly off topic but here's a question about the garlic. I have fed garlic supplements  for years and had great results. I was reading something that said garlic can be harmful in some cases and it may be good to take periodic breaks from it. So that is what prompted me to let the garlic run out. I figured I'd start it up again in late winter. Ever heard of that? I know garlic can be controversial but like I said I have seen great results so I like it.

 I add garlic regularly to my dog's food.  It is (to quote a vet friend of mine, Dr. Roger Clemmons from UF) "Nature's antibiotic". 

It is an alium -- onions are aliums.  But garlic is NOT onion.  Onion makes it hard for the body to keep and absorb calcium.  Onions are bad. 

Garlic is fine.  Most of what you read is knee-jerk assumptions that because onions and garlic are both aliums that onion and garlic are both 'bad'.  It's just wrong.

However, at the same time -- I don't give ANY supplement long, long term without a break.  But for me a "break" is a couple of weeks -- not an entire season, if that helps.

I had to laugh -- I've used garlic for years (most for it's antibiotic properties) ... but I've never seen any huge benefit from it.  fleas?  no help whatsoever from garlic.  And to me the idea of adding "yeast" to ANY being's diet is insane.  Dogs are too prone to yeast infections ... it jsut does'n't make sense to me to add it.

So all that was totally not helpful, right?

Been super busy this week....

But lets see, (1) thanks for the info (2) I know everyone has varying results with supplements. I get a garlic supplement that is 100% garlic, no yeast and a high quality. Like I said, it's helped wih fleas and  I also like it for the antibiotic properties. I ordered more, it came today so they will be back on it. I am also going tonight to buy their old food. (3) Gotti hasn't gotten any worse, but not improved either (maybe a little less biting) so I'm going to try to get him to the vet soon. (I'm actually going to call the office as soon as I am done typing this). It will make me feel better to hear the vet's opinion on this.

I'll keep you updated. Thanks again!

~ cathy & gotti