Bugsy's toe

 Wishing Bugsy the best.

Karen -- a year ago I would have been as skeptical as you -- but now?  I'm hearing the vet loud and clear.

The bottom joint in my right thumb -- o .... m .....g ...  I was contemplating some surgery a few years ago on my right hand (I had a ganglion cycst that was being nasty) so I had some x-rays and at the time the ortho said to me "man, I bet that hand is SUPER painful" ...

well, I've lived with arthritis my entire adult life ... so no ... no more than anything else, so I shrugged.  He showed me the x-ray *then* -- and yep, that big joint was bone on bone but I figgered I wouldn't borrow trouble besides ... what am I gonna do about it? Cry?  I'm right-handed .. I type for a living ....

Then something happened this past January - got a new keyboard tray at work ... ugh.

All of a sudden I had PAIN in that thumb.  And dang .. I don't WALK on it.  My DOM actually says it's "gout" (which isn't what I always thot it was) -- so I drink TONS of cherry juice concentrate (it does something specific and dang but it does help).  But looking at "gout" as kind of a point specific arthritis.  Yeow!!

That one joint will cause pain to radiate up my arm.  But because I then tend to favor that thumb (mouse hand but NOT the button finger) it makes my arm and shoulder hurt - which makes my neck hurt ....

Bottom line -- yeah, I can understand.  Aside from the fact that the paws -- likek our fingers -- are loaded with more neural sensation than you'd think.  The pads are tough because they walk on them, but  just like our hands are equipt with sensors so they help us avoid hot things, sharp things, and bad things in general -- they have a lot of nerves in the feet.  And particularly if you are talking about the joint up where two toes meet?  That's an area requiring a ton of flexibility for running, maintaining balance, etc.

Dang ... pooor Bugsy. 

Do you still have White Flower Oil?  Don't massage -- but just dribble some right on that arthritic spot and see if he'll let you put a sock on it.  (don't rub your face on it Bugs!!)   But WFO is excellent on bone pain -- it won't interfere with whatever the vet does but it will augment it. 

But if you are thinking OF massage, his shoulder is likely taking a hit because with a sore joint like that he's compensating all up and down that leg up to his neck.

The other one you could do easy that wouldn't interfere with a thing is Heel's Zeel.  It's very similar to Traumeel but it's specifically for arthritis.  You can get it in a cream but even the tablets -- 1/2 tablet 3 times a day?   Wouldn't hurt -- might help.  Do the entire bottle tho (you don't have to cut in half -- but it's a tad wasteful cos they don't need a full tablet).

p.s. -- not advocating cherry juice for Bugsy -- it wouldn't hurt, but you gotta take like two full tablespoons a day .... I do it but it's a tad .... *sigh* much.  It's sweet (mercy is it sweet).  I do it because I'm determined.  Bugsy would prolly think it sucked tho. LOL  It's supposed to reduce the ureic acid but you have to take a freaking TON of it to do anything.  I'm beginning to think George Washington did something special chopping down that cherry tree LOL

I hope Bugsy's toe can heal up. 

Karen:  is there anything they can do to help the cartilage grow back or something else to help his pain ??

Deb W.

 Aw Bugsy, not feeling quite 100% eh?  Hope you feel better, big boy!

You know for this sort of thing, in general, they suggest glucosamine and chondroitin.  There is also an injectable form, called Adequan.  I used this for my RB Marlin, for his hips.  It is a once a month injection (after a start up time of 2 weeks, as I recall, when they are every other day).  It really helped Marlin for 3+ years.  As the month came to a close, he couldn't be able to jump up on the sofa and would whine for help.  Three or 4 days later, within 20 minutes of the next injection he was able to jump up again.

 If Bugsy's doc suggests this route, get a written script from him and buy it online from the Drs. FOster & Smith pharmacy, this will save you LOTS of money.  And I was able to give the shots here at home and save on a tech visit fee, as well.  So keep this in mind in case the doc goes this route.

I sent some wishes to Bugsy on today's chat, but I wanted to post more here.  It sure is a good thing that you have access to the lake so he can continue to get exercise without having to be on concrete or other damaging surfaces. 

I suppose a dog's toe injury is like a human's --- there's not a lot they can do to cast or splint it easily.  And it's nearly impossible to keep a dog from putting some weight on a paw, and it's got to be worse for a large dog. 

Hmmmmm . . . Bugsy is so clever, maybe you could teach him to use crutches?! 

I hope it improves when he gets more rest when you're away.  It'll be interesting to see what happens then.

 Thanks all for the thoughts and ideas - for the record he takes gluco/chond and Nutrajoint and has for years.

There was NO arthritis in the joint - just missing cushioning and it is crooked

I thought this was a funny line from the doctor's report back to me:

"Bugsy seems to be doing very well, and I cannot elicit (as usual!) any significant discomfort except for this toe."

He basically just said to reduce his walks on asphalt and try to increase swimming as it is non-weight bearing. The surgeon is very aware that exercise is a staple for B so for another dog he might have said rest.

(this is the guy that did his knee and allowed us to start rehab on day 10 when the standard is to start after 8 weeks!)

The doing well comment is because B's knees seem good, he showed no issues with his neck, shoulder, elbow or wrist. His muscle tone and amount is still well above average.

Bugsy is 7, for a dog his size he is in his 60's.  I told the doc about our hike at Pilot Mtn and that B swims next to the kayak for about 30 minutes. He was stunned that he was still that fit & active, as age & knees would generally have reduced his activity levels.

I believe that he doesn't want us to dramatically reduce his activity also because he wants to see if it goes away under normal use or we have a bigger issue.

I will say that I took him swimming last night and we had no limp but a short walk today and we did have a limp so may be it is a toe LOL

Karen, I bet it is "just" the toe, too. It's such a tricky bone and it bears a ton of weight when walking, turning, etc. Sounds like there's going to be a lot of swimming and kayaking going on! 

Extra belly rubs for the big guy!

Poor B!!! Those toes are really painful :((  I hope he's feeling better very soon.  Healing vibes heading your way from my tribe!

kpwlee

Thanks all for the thoughts and ideas - for the record he takes gluco/chond and Nutrajoint and has for years.

There was NO arthritis in the joint - just missing cushioning and it is crooked

That's truly odd -- I was thinking he took NutraJoint and now that makes me go "hmmm"  maybe alien's stole it.  Sorry -- am clueless!!

However -- the White Flower Oil *should* help

kpwlee

I believe that he doesn't want us to dramatically reduce his activity also because he wants to see if it goes away under normal use or we have a bigger issue.

Yeah -- cos it's just kinda odd.

 Thank you again ladies - and yes it is odd but B is odd

His pain threshold is ridiculously high - which is why

a) I find it hard to believe what I saw on the xray would cause the limp he has

and b) it is nearly impossible to know what is going on. He doesn't show you pain.

How do I know his pain threshold is ridiculously high? Well he removed the fentanyl patch post TPLO immediately so had no medicine enter his system. Ran out to greet me the morning after (dragging a tech behind him), he stood on the bad leg to pee upon coming home, he wandered around the yard to an extent I had to call and find out if he could do damage (first few days) and never ONCE yelped, moaned, lost sleep etc.

Most dogs post TPLO won't eat or sleep, moan heavily for days, and a great percentage don't use the leg for weeks. Bugsy was ready to just get back to his life. Everyone we worked with along the way was incredulous at his lack of pain (showing it)

kpwlee

Everyone we worked with along the way was incredulous at his lack of pain (showing it)

Stoic -- some dogs are just way more stoic than others under NORMAL circumstancs -- and then there *is* Bugsy! LOL  Muffin the Intrepid was like that -- if he was sick or hurting you NEVER knew it.  We got so later in his life that David and I could tell but it was more by looking in his eyes than anything else, but man he did NOT want you to know he hurt.

He *felt* pain ... but he would not *show* pain.  So where Bugsy is on that line I have no clue.  I suspect his unbridled desire to DO STUFF just over-rides pain. 

Sort of a weird comparison -- but sort of like a dog who dearly loves FOOD won't be put off by the mere fact they are full or even that their stomach is uncomfortable -- if they find something they WANT to eat they're gonna eat it come heck or high water!! 

I think, honestly, that's one of those purely wonderful things about dogs --that they have the ability to focus on what they want like that.  Some more than others.  Bugsy truly excels at it.