Dog Bloodwork Results Update

    • Bronze

    Dog Bloodwork Results Update

     Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions in my original thread :-)  I think I have found the cause of the problem!

    Three days ago I went through my calender and wracked my brain for everything that had changed in the household about the time Misty started scratching.  I had changed the soap I wash dog dishes with, a strange fungus started growing on a windowsill and I had used poison on some ants near a doorway.  Went through and cleaned everything up, scraped off the fungus, got out the old soap again (Dr Bonner's), washed off any traces of poison (not something the dogs really come in contact with anyway), etc. etc.  Then when it was time to feed I remembered Misty's Proin.  She was taking a small dose and I had upped the amount to one tab twice a day!  Kicking myself for it now; it was still within the recommended dose, but I had never researched the possible side effects. Aggression is one and I think since Misty is very submissive this translated into a bad case of nerves and made her itch.

    Needless to say she is now completely OFF of Proin.  AND I stopped the Prednisone completely too.  So far there is no sign of foot chewing, no scratching and her skin, while still bare on her toes, is a healthy light pink instead of an inflamed red.  Hallelujah!  I'm praying that it continues. 

    Misty seems calmer and happier so I don't want to go back to the Proin.  My husband says what are we going to do instead, is there an alternative?  so I guess I'll research that, but so far there haven't been any puddles to worry about.

    • Bronze

     Well I have to take back part of this, we just found a big puddle in front of the shower door.  The mat was pretty wet. Maybe i will put diapers on her at night but husband doesn't like that idea.

    • Gold Top Dog

    my Luna was suddenly "leaking" this summer (she's 8+) after an infection.  Besides my 'regular' vet we also use a TCVM vet (Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine) vet and she has Luna on a power (Tuan ....something) that is one of Dr. Xie's mixes.  http://www.tcvm.com -- that's the Chi Institute and there is a locator on the left.

     Between the acupuncture and the herbs NO leaking. 

    Jennie Driggers also used a homeopathic "Leaks No More" on one of her dogs with great results as well.  (If you've never used a homeopathic, you can email me and I'll help you -- homepathics aren't medicine - you don't give with or near food because they have to absorb into the tissues of the mouth NOT the stomach)

     If you are willing to try alternative stuff there are a lot of options. 

    How long had she been on pred?  Did you wean it off?? You can *NOT* just stop pred cold turkey, you know that right?  (sorry, I can't see the rest of the post to see the history on this). 

    • Gold Top Dog

    And btw -- Dr. Bronner's rocks!  But if you're cleaning where there is mold (fungus) use the lavender one and either add a bit of lavender essential oil or add some tea tree to it - both of those are excellent for combating fungal stuff

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sian12
    Misty's Proin.  She was taking a small dose and I had upped the amount to one tab twice a day!  Kicking myself for it now; it was still within the recommended dose, but I had never researched the possible side effects. Aggression is one and I think since Misty is very submissive this translated into a bad case of nerves and made her itch.

     

    Can you tell me where you read that aggresion is a side effect of PPA? 

    • Gold Top Dog

    Jackie -- it wasn't my post but it's something, b/c of Luna, that I've been looking at too and this was the first one I'd found:  PetMD (only I can't spell -- it's PetsMD) -- it's not an alternative site or anything.  But it's kinda handy.

    I haven't checked them all but putting "proin agression" into Bing gets you a whole page full of stuff -- some just anecdotal but a lot pretty documented.  It's something that has come up before (Kee Shu and Socks were SO incontinent it was scarey and we discussed Proin then as well).

    I'm hoping the OP will cite her own sources.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Yes, I've looked the PetsMD site often.  Irritability and nervousness are listed as possible side effects on several sites that I trust are fairly accurate. It was used in people as a decongestant and diet aid but it's not available for humans any more based on what I read.  I'm sure putting 'Proin aggression' would get lots of hits but if it's mostly anecdotal, I don't usually pay too much mind unless there's some sort of veterinary references cited.   I was mostly curious but thanks for the info. :)  

    ETA, I didn't look at the PetsMD site when I researched Proin.  I see that it is listing aggression as a side effect.  I don't mean to derail the OP's thread.   Like so many drugs, behavioral side effect reports can be listed but since aggression is something that can have many contributing factors and reports generally come from owner observation, I tend to be skeptical until proven wrong.  That happens too. lol   The OP's observation is a good example of what I'm talking about, no offense intended.

    • Gold Top Dog

    JackieG
    It was used in people as a decongestant and diet aid but it's not available for humans any more based on what I read.  

    Were you in the room when my vet and I talked about this *grin*?

    Actually -- back when you could still buy real pseudaphedrine (not the substitute marketed now) they used to give THAT to dogs as well for incontinence.

    But ... *all* of these can cause high blood pressure.  (including the new substitue they are giving to people).  And incidentally -- most of the 'hits' you get on there are discussing this the same way -- that a LOT of things can cause those particular "side effects" - not *just* Proin.  Good discussion actually

     

    • Bronze

     I was reading so many sites about Proin I don't remember which they were now.  PetMeds was probably one but I saw it in several places so just didn't give Misty her evening pill and she seemed to relax within hours.

    I did decrease the pred but it wasn't very gradual, I have to confess.  It's something I used for a few months in the summer for grass allergy so she's pretty used to it and it's going and coming.  Should I look for side effects?

    I would be interested in trying some homeopathic products if there are some that are helpful on a large number of dogs.  I don't think I can afford to go to a traditional Chinese trained vet right now after spending as much as I have on better food, shampoos and the regular vet.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    You can't just "stop" pred -- it is highly addictive to the body.  If you just stop it, it will rebound.  That means whatever she was taking it FOR will happen again only worse.  If you're taking it to calm down bad skin it can make it 100X worse -- If you're taking it for bronchitis you can wind up with worse problems (or pneumonia).  The body wants it -- and can literally not only embrace the original problem but do it way worse.

    Now someitmes doctors/vets won't wean if the person/animal has been on it less than a week -- others will 'wean' it if the being has only been on it a day or so.  sometimes it's a slow wean off sometimes a faster one - it all depends on the problem and the medical person doing it.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Sian12
    Then when it was time to feed I remembered Misty's Proin.  She was taking a small dose and I had upped the amount to one tab twice a day!  Kicking myself for it now; it was still within the recommended dose, but I had never researched the possible side effects. Aggression is one and I think since Misty is very submissive this translated into a bad case of nerves and made her itch.

     

       One of the ingredients in PROIN is brewer's yeast, which is a common food allergy; Jessie's very allergic to it. When you increased the dosage, you were giving her more brewer's yeast. I'm betting that was the source of her itching. You can get phenylpropanolamine in a generic tablet that doesn't have brewer's yeast, and it's much cheaper than PROIN ;

       Phenylpropanolamine (PPA) Hydrochloride Tablets (Generic)

      You'll have to have your vet fax them a prescription.

    • Bronze

     Janice, thanks so much for telling me Proin has yeast in it!  That may well be the problem.  I've replaced all her food because everything I had also has Brewer's yeast.  The milk thistle supplement has it too so I won't be able to use it after all.

    • Gold Top Dog

    If you order bulk milk thistle it's a lot cheaper and that way it will be "just" milk thistle.  I use http://www.leavesandroots.com a lot, but someone I know found Starwest organic milk thistle on Amazon by the pount for *cheap* the other day too.

    1/4 teas. is about equal to one capsule but that's not enough to do much.  Mine get 1/2 teas. twice a day just generally (we get a lot of environmental toxins here -- they spray year round for mosquitos, etc.) and if I'm dealing with medicines they get a full teaspoon twice a day in their food.  It's not at all bitter -- you can mix it into a topper or anything wet.