Ziva is leaky :(

Emma and Bean both leaked from a young age. Bean still leaks, but it's tiny amounts. It's been more or less over time, depending on what's stressing her, and if she has an infection or not. I'd certainly take Z for a urinalysis.

Emma's incontinence was related to her early spay (at 8 weeks, not my choice), and a pinched nerve in her spine. Bean's incontinence started before she was spayed. She was allowed to go through several heat cycles, in an attempt to strengthen the muscles. Her health checks out completely fine, just with a slight leak. Have you tried Leaks No More? It's been awesome, for both of them.

 I had forgotten about Leaks No More - great idea!

 I find that with some dogs the herbals just don't work to control it.  Do you have an objection to using Proin, or is there some contraindication for her?

Proin works for *some* dogs.  It didn't work for Socks.

the other thing we used for Socks was Shizandra (t's an herb that 'sucks up moisture" similar to how an antihistamine does) and Socks was spayed WAY late.  I've honestly seen far far FAR less spay incontinence in a dog spayed way early (like at 8 weeks) because then the sex organs never develop, rather than being surgically removed badly (to leave the bladder 'hanging' without support)

In honesty it might simply be easier to get her an oval foam bed, line it UNDER the cover but on top of the foam with plastic and oilcloth, and just train her that she needs to ask for her bed before she gets "on" any of the furniture.  You might need to invest in several "beds" for her but it would likely be worth it.

I really hate to put her on anything when she really only has accidents infrequently - I hate using drugs if something more gentle will do the job so I'll be exhausting alternatives before going that route.  Our vet has not discussed Proin with me to date, but I'll be talking to her about the new accident this week and we'll see whether that brings up drug therapy or not.

Someone mentioned the washable incontinence pads for soft surfaces in my other thread and I saw Callie's bed idea and I think I'd prefer using cloth diapers before going to a bed or pad set up - it's just too easy to miss the edge of something ime.

Currently I'm just making a habit of waking her up regularly while she's on the couch, thus not letting her get into that deep sleep that makes accidents more likely.  We have dog beds throughout the house, but Kes has couch privileges and I certainly don't want to take away her snuggle options (that's partly me liking her snuggles as well lol).  She was already confined when we left the house because of her prior accidents, so nothing has to change there.

Any experiences with acupuncture or chiro for incontinence?  We have both options nearby.

Acupuncture is one I was going to mention as I read down your post. It *did* strengthen Emma. Bean hasn't tried it, yet, because her issue is not severe, but she is going onto a bladder health herbal supplement (that I purchased from naturalrearing.com). I need to look into it, for her. It definitely helped Emma, and was awesome, all around, for her. She had a nerve issue as the cause, and acupuncture ROCKS for nerves.

 Snickers does wonderful on Leaks No More.  I used it on her for about two years and then weaned her off and she is doing fine now for the first time since I've had her.  I just put the drops in her food and that's it.  I rarely had her on the whole dosage.  So then I didn't go through the bottles too quickly.

Bailey had a leaking incident when she was on a steroidal medication for her allergies.  As soon as we discontinued the medication, it stopped.  We a few weeks ago, Bailey began leaking on and off throughout the day, no matter how much I brought her to potty outside.  The vet perscribed PROIN and it worked.  It stopped the leaking.  She cannot handle not being on the couch, so I kept a doggie diaper on her for the most part and it stopped in 2 days.

calliecritturs

Proin works for *some* dogs.  It didn't work for Socks.

the other thing we used for Socks was Shizandra (t's an herb that 'sucks up moisture" similar to how an antihistamine does) and Socks was spayed WAY late.  I've honestly seen far far FAR less spay incontinence in a dog spayed way early (like at 8 weeks) because then the sex organs never develop, rather than being surgically removed badly (to leave the bladder 'hanging' without support)

In honesty it might simply be easier to get her an oval foam bed, line it UNDER the cover but on top of the foam with plastic and oilcloth, and just train her that she needs to ask for her bed before she gets "on" any of the furniture.  You might need to invest in several "beds" for her but it would likely be worth it.

What you've seen is not supported by evidence in terms of the older puppies.  There was a study that showed that dogs spayed at 8 months were far less likely to be spay incontinent than those spayed at 4 months.  I don't know about neonates, so your assumption about them could be right, I just have no idea, not having seen any studies on that.  Those dogs that cannot use Proin can try DES (diethylstilbestrol).  Both are options I don't like when other more natural things work.  But, many dogs who are spay incontinent get no relief from the herbals, so these are options.  To be honest, I hated the idea of Sioux on meds, so I do what others have mentioned.  She is "emptied" frequently, and I use bedding with waterproofing under it for her.  The only sad part is that she sleeps in her crate, rather than in my bed.  She actually likes the crate better - it's me that would love to invite her in to the water bed with me:-)

 (knock wood) we might be dealing with a diet issue.  Since going back to THK full time (I took a break over the holidays and just started back up a few weeks ago) she's been dry!  I'm wondering if the accidents are due to crystals in her urine (we saw that when she was eating kibble when we initially had this problem) and the THK gets rid of them (confirmed in urinalysis this summer) so they no longer irritate the bladder.  Very interesting if that is indeed the case, and certainly a nice and easy fix!