Allergic to Frontline?

    • Gold Top Dog

    Allergic to Frontline?

    I'm having some problems with Chico, my 2 year old Chihuahua. We knew shortly after we'd gotten him that he had some type of skin problem - or what it seemed. He had lost hair around his eyes, tail and back end and was extremely itchy. After years of going to different vets (and getting a million different answers) I had thought a month ago we finally had the right answer - fungal infection.

    He was on steroids and something called Ketoconazole. For the first couple of weeks, his hair grew back ..his wounds from itching started to heal, but now we are right back where we started. He's also now got small hard red pimple-like bumps on his back. I've been looking online since the beginning and have come up with absolutely nothing .. but it dawned on me, what if it could be the Frontline? That's all we've ever used on him ..and although I know you're suppose to use it year-round ..I only use it during the summer. During last winter, all his hair grew back and he seemed fine. I've also googled it and the images I saw are almost identical as to what he looks like. Keep in mind we've tried changing foods, different medications, skin scrapings, etc.

     Just wondering if anyone has gone through this .. is there anything else I can try? I'm taking him to the vet sometime this week, whenever I can get in, just trying to find any answers in the mean time.

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    They (or we, for that matter) can be allergic to anything.  And given that you're saying it clears up during the winter?  Could be.

    However -- let me put a 'bug in your ear' about a couple of other things.

    1.  Even tho he's only two, I would have the vet do a thyroid profile but NOT NOT NOT with a regular lab.  Ask the vet to send it either directly to Dr. Jean Dodds at Hemopet (http://www.hemopet.org ) or to Michigan State University (Dr. Dodds actually set up their labs when she was head of endocrinology there).  IT IS *NOT* the same as sending it to a lab.  Typically all thyroid tests are judged against the same critera -- whether it's a chi, a lab or a rottie or a bulldog.  Same 'range' of numbers.  But all breeds ARE different and have different metabolic rates.  And if the thyroid is even slightly off, **nothing** you do will work.

    2.  The other thing I'd have them do is a full bloodworkup -- Ketaconazole is VERY hard on the liver.  Extremely so

     3.  Because of what I just said about the ketaconazole I would have this dog on milk thistle asap for at least 2-3 weeks just to help the liver return to normal

    See once again -- all bloodwork is a range and unless you have had bloodwork done previously when they were healthy then you don't know what *normal* is for THIS dog -- and even if the liver values are "within norm" that may still be too high for this dog to really function normally.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks for the reply! We've had labs done awhile back and we also had bloodwork done right before he was put on the Ketaconazole. He's also had skin scrapings done 3 different times - at 3 different vets. They told us how it can effect the liver, but they were just trying it out initally to see if it would even help. We've easily spent over $1,000.00 and it's getting to the point where it's ridiculous. I don't mean that in an 'I don't care anymore' type of way ..I'm just honestly sick of spending money that does absolutely nothing to HELP my dog. If what they did worked, I wouldn't be complaining. One of our other 'options' were a $500+ allergy test to see what exactly he is allergic to.. or taking him to a dog dermatologist.. I can not afford that.

    Do they charge you extra to have your labs sent somewhere else? ..Besides where they automatically send them? And where can I find this milk thistle? ..What is it exactly?

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    I've been using Comfortis for flea control on my dogs for several years with no ill effects.  My JRT started being bothered by the Frontline (not severe but enough to worry me) so I switched. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    redlegos
    Do they charge you extra to have your labs sent somewhere else? ..Besides where they automatically send them?

    Yes, it will cost you whatever Michigan or Dr. Dodds charges (and you can see Dr. Dodd's prices on the Hemopet.org website) plus the cost of overnighting the blood out there.  But the results are FAR different than a regular lab.  I had Billy's thyroid tested FOUR TIMES when we first got him -- over and over it came back just a bit below normal but not even close to "low".  When we sent it to Michigan it came back DEFINITELY low and we supplemented him and saw results almost immediately.  It IS worth sending it out to get the problem diagnosed.

    The other suggestion I would have would be to try something completely different -- specifically I'd tell you to go to a vet who does TCVM (Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine) -- the exam they do is COMPLETELY different (no testing at all) but they will be able to pinpoint if any areas of the body aren't functioning up to par.  I"m not saying to leave your vet -- literally a TCVM vet is complimentary therapy but for my dogs it has resolve SO many problems.

    http://www.tcvm.com -- there is a locator on the left, and if you want to email me I'm happy to help you sort thru who might be good to use.  Please *don't* just go to the one who is the token holistic vet at a large practice -- you want a vet who does TCVM as their life's work -- one who uses it to diagnose -- that's what makes the difference.  It's gotten to be the trendy thing for big practices to "offer" acupuncture -- and that's not going to resolve a problem like this -- you need someone who will use it to diagnose this.

    It always sets my teeth on edge when a vet relies on skin scrapings to try to diagnose demodex -- you can freaking SMELL it a mile way -- they shouldn't need to draw blood on the dog to figure it out -- sorry, I've had too many demodex dogs - it's one of my pet peeves when a vet can't diagnose it.  And you won't find a sarcoptic mite ON a slide -- not ever - -they're too fast. 

    redlegos
    And where can I find this milk thistle? ..What is it exactly?

    You can even find milk thistle at Wal-Mart -- and getting your first bottle there isn't a bad thing.  It's in the aisle where the herbals are.  Milk thistle is an herb -- it helps detox the liver.  You can also go to any decent health store -- they'll have the capsules OR you can just get milk thistle tea (usually health stores have bulk tea -- not tea bags, just a bag of the herbs).  I'd give your little guy at least 1/2 teas. in his food twice a day.  Or 1-2 capsules twice a day (and I'd empty the caps on his food -- maybe stir in a topper if you feed dry kibble -- it's easier for them than digesting the gelatin capsules).  From Wikepedia

    Milk thistle

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search
    Milk Thistle
    Silybum marianum
    Scientific classification
    Kingdom: Plantae
    (unranked): Angiosperms
    (unranked): Eudicots
    (unranked): Asterids
    Order: Asterales
    Family: Asteraceae
    Subfamily: Carduoideae
    Tribe: Cynareae
    Genus: Silybum
    Adans.
    Species

    The milk thistle is a thistle of the genus Silybum Adans., a flowering plant of the daisy family (Asteraceae). They are native to the Mediterranean regions of Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. The name "milk thistle" derives from two features of the leaves: they are mottled with splashes of white and they contain a milky sap.[1]

    The seeds of the milk thistle have been used for 2000 years to treat chronic liver disease and protect the liver against toxins.[2][1] Increasing research is being undertaken on the physiological effects, therapeutic properties and possible medical uses of milk thistle.[3]

    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks CallieCritturs,

    I honestly really do appreciate your advice .. but I can't spend $100+ to send labwork off to another dotor, when my vet alone is approxamently $30-80+ every time we visit. Although I would love to ..I just simply can not afford it. I've just recently graduated Cosmetology school and I don't have a stedy job yet. My mom has willingly helped me with Chico's vet bills in the past but unless that guarentees me exact answers - I can't, not right now anyway. It's not that I don't care about my dogs, it's just the fact that right at this moment, I'm low on money.

    I looked on that second website you gave me too - the closest one is 1hr 54 minutes away, according to MapQuest.

    I know I have my old vet papers in a folder somewhere, but we've already tried 3-4 other medications, other than the two he is on now (which aren't doing a darn thing.) You're right about how the dogs smell. Chico will be okay until he comes inside from being out for awhile. He absolutely reeks. I can't tell if it's a 'wet dog' type of smell or if it's like fish-y. He's been on steroids since we first got him, so almost 3 years. He's also been on Atopica? If that's spelled correctly. I can't remember the rest right off the top of my head. Although I know sending his bloodwork in is what you suggest ..do you know of any medications that could possibly help? As I had said before, I do think he is Allergic to Frontline. His skin improves in the winter, but it never goes away completely. After every Frontline treatment it seems to get much worse..

     I'd found this website - http://www.vetinfo.com/ddemotreat.html 

     Recent picture, taken today.

    • Gold Top Dog

    It seems clearly related to the Frontline so you'll need to use something else (and there are other options!!)

    But right now you'll probably need to detox him a bit and get the skin settled down.  I emailed you -- let's see if I can help suggest some things to you.