Does anyone remember Barney? He has serious fatigue problems.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Does anyone remember Barney? He has serious fatigue problems.

    I haven't posted here in a long time.  I only see Barney when I'm on the west coast but meanwhile I read about everyone else's pups here.  I guess this is kind of rude to just appear when you are asking for help, but the folks on this forum have seen so much.

    The background on Barney is that he was run over by a car when he was 6 months old and suffered some bad breaks.  We adopted him and just did the best we could, and he turned out pretty happy and has kept all his limbs.  He's a little off in the leg department, but his spirit is great.  And has always been a wild-man, in the ball-chasing department.

    He will be 4 years old in June.  Over the past year he started showing signs of serious fatigue while playing, causing him to stop in the middle off ball-play and lay down.  Last summer we had him checked over for heart problems, cushings, and thyroid.  All ok.  Tested for parasites, negative.

    We moved on to heartworm and Lyme.  Both were negative, but we decided to stop running the millions of tests (tick-borne illnesses galore) and give a treatment of doxy -- he became paranoid on the drug (very strange) and we stopped it.  He went on Simplicef  for several weeks for a skin infection (allergy related), and saw some improvement.  When I saw him a few months later he looked like a new dog..

    This winter I saw him again, and immediately had him tested for his favorite parasite -- giardia.   It was back again.

    He has recurring giardia (since we got him), and was having gi problems.  We started him on Flagyl but he became so sick by the second dose that we stopped immediately and switched to Panacur.  It took 24 hours for him to recover from the Flagyl.  But he has improved with 2 bouts of Panacur (plus a little pumpkin), and we are getting ready to give him a third shot at it with a higher dose.  The gi problems have much improved.

    But the fatigue -- it's just not right.  It stops him in his tracks.  We wait for him to ask for exercise now, and keep it short, because it wears him out so fast.  When he has the energy, he looks like a normal dog.  But chase the ball 3 times and he drops to the ground.  Walk 2 blocks in cool weather and his head is hanging, and he'll just stop in the middle of the sidewalk.  Brought him into the vet and he flopped to the floor and didn't lift his head through the entire 40 minute visit (he had gotten a morning walk).  He'll get excited about a cat or squirrel but it's short-lived.  Sometimes he looks like he's pushing on empty. 

    He sleeps at least 12 hours every night.  He gets up an hour or 2 after we do.  And then he goes back to bed.  He sleeps a LOT.  And he looks unhappy when he is so tired.  Stressed, you can see it in his face.  I thought it might be pain (those bones of his grew back in new formations), but the vet isn't convinced since when he does play he is so active and shows no sign of pain. 

    And lately he eats like a starving dog.  He would just as soon have another cup of dog food as a biscuit.   No weight loss here. 

    So the last test we had done was for myasthenia gravis.  And it came up negative.  Our vet is referring us to an internal medicine specialist.  She said it's not an emergency but we need to move on to a new approach.

    Does anyone have ANY idea of something that we've missed?   I was worried about IMHA, but she says not.  Honestly, doesn't this sound like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?

    **

    He will get no more annual vaccines.  I have no choice with rabies, that is due next year.  He is not going back to dog park even though he loves playing with the dachshunds.  Just too many bugs he could pick up there.

    We have not done any alternative medicine with him.  I have massaged his neck and back and legs at night since we got him.  He gets glucosomine and nutrajoint.  I have lined up possible acupuncturist but I want to know what is wrong before we try to give him relief.

    Any thoughts are appreciated.  

    Carolyn
    • Gold Top Dog

    cat0
    But the fatigue -- it's just not right.  It stops him in his tracks.  We wait for him to ask for exercise now, and keep it short, because it wears him out so fast.  When he has the energy, he looks like a normal dog.  But chase the ball 3 times and he drops to the ground.  Walk 2 blocks in cool weather and his head is hanging, and he'll just stop in the middle of the sidewalk.  Brought him into the vet and he flopped to the floor and didn't lift his head through the entire 40 minute visit (he had gotten a morning walk).  He'll get excited about a cat or squirrel but it's short-lived.  Sometimes he looks like he's pushing on empty. 

    After reading this, & owning breeds who are known for heart issues, I would look into having an echocardiogram done on the heart, as well as having him holtered for 24 hours.  Having your vet listen to a heart rate & rhythym is nowhere near as accurate as having an exact picture of what is going on.  A heart abnormality could easily cause fatigue.

    I *believe* that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome can be tenatively diagnosed with blood testing, although I don't think that there is a specific test for it.  It's more of a situation where your vet lets the lab know that CFS is suspected & the lab techs look for specific cells on the blood smears, in combination with some levels from the chemistry panel.  (I think that it's the PCV, Albumin, Total Protein, Globulins, Creatine Kinase, & one or two more, that I can't remember at the moment, that will lead you to a CFS diagnosis.)

    Good luck.  I hope that you get answers soon!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Absolutely YES to everything Amanda just said. 

    But I would go further -- I'm not at all convinced this is *fatigue* and not just PAIN.  And given what you are saying about the short duration of his energy, it should be pretty easy for a vet to check this BUT  I'm talking about seeing a TCVM vet (Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine) -- they're going to give an entirely different type of exam.  No testing -- they're going to be able to tell with their hands more than a regular vet can usually get from testing.  Literally by feeling the pulse points thru the body and how the blood flow in one area compares to another they can tell incredible stuff.

    http://www.tcvm.com -- that's the Chi Institute and there is a locator on the left.  I know some vets out in California -- if you want to email me and give me your zip code I can probably help you pick one (there are TONS of TCVM vets in CA).

    For pain TCVM is incredible -- but also for heart stuff and other chronic problems. 

    and btw -- glad to see you back ... YES I do remember you!!!

    • Gold Top Dog
    I really don't know, but I can empathize with you - when Pirate was sick and we couldn't pinpoint a diagnosis, it was incredibly distressing. I will think 'figure it out' thoughts!
    • Gold Top Dog

    Thanks for the replies.

    BEVOLASVEGAS
    After reading this, & owning breeds who are known for heart issues, I would look into having an echocardiogram done on the heart, as well as having him holtered for 24 hours.  Having your vet listen to a heart rate & rhythym is nowhere near as accurate as having an exact picture of what is going on.  A heart abnormality could easily cause fatigue.

     

    We kept thinking that it sounded so much like the heart that I actually took Barney to the vet one day and we walked to a parking lot that we could close the gates on, and I played ball with him for a bit.  Then we stopped and she listened to his heart.  And still nothing.  But I have to say that he didn't look like he was in distress, just that the pavement was too hot for his paws.

    Does it take a specialist to check this out?

     

    calliecritturs
    I'm not at all convinced this is *fatigue* and not just PAIN.  And given what you are saying about the short duration of his energy, it should be pretty easy for a vet to check this BUT  I'm talking about seeing a TCVM vet (Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine) -- they're going to give an entirely different type of exam.  No testing -- they're going to be able to tell with their hands more than a regular vet can usually get from testing.  Literally by feeling the pulse points thru the body and how the blood flow in one area compares to another they can tell incredible stuff.

    I am *always* scrutinizing Barney, looking for signs of pain.  He was a train wreck, and it very well could be pain in the neck or spine.  I knew some day we would be ready for acupuncture.  I know how dogs cover it up and I generally look at his eyes and ears to know that something is wrong.   I have spent several months searching the internet and asking local people  (I've used a place before but won't go back) but only got one local name.  I had started by looking at the TCVM site (I look at that site often) but it's like looking at the yellow pages for me.  Yes, I will PM you for help there, thank you.

    So -- have to pick one to start with -- find a heart vet, or TCVM? I have 3 internal medicine specialist names, I could ask each how they would approach a heart problem.

    Thanks again for the help.

    Carolyn

    • Gold Top Dog

    Honestly the TCVM vet is going to be able to point you to the heart specialist IF needed, but Chinese medicine is really GOOD with heart stuff (herbologist again ...)

    • Gold Top Dog

    I second the ECG and TCVM options.  At least they would be able to figure this out for you hopefully.  TCVM would be greatly helpfull in identifying any pain causes.

    You got my good thoughts also for Barney.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Johnny&Tessy
    I second the ECG and TCVM options.


    Thanks, I'm pursuing TCVM first with Callie's help.

    I'm a lot more comfortable (and positive) with this approach than the major traditional hospitals that I got references to.  The reviews/ratings horrified me and I'm not comfortable with doctors myself.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Check out the symptoms of Cushings disease: http://www.bullwrinkle.com/Assets/Health%20Topics/cushings-disease-in-dogs.htm

    That was what I thought of when I read your post.

    v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} b\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} 11.9999 280 7772400 10058400 259 261 257 275 262 278 1 0NS>NOJ5EZD>Q!@>B7^'Q00 5 2 0 281 False 0 0 -1 304800 243 True 128 77 255 3175 3175 70 True True True True True 277 134217728 1 3 -9999996.000000 -9999996.000000 8 Empty 16711680 52479 26367 13421772 16737792 13382502 16777215 Bluebird 22860000 22860000 (`@````````` 266 263 5 110185200 110185200 True True 3 (``````````` (``````````` 3 4343400 685800

    SeniorCare

    • Gold Top Dog

    Some of the symptoms seem like a match for cushings, but we had tests for both cushings and thyroid problems, and they showed as ok.  Frustrating.  Thanks for the site.

    • Gold Top Dog

    A lot of drugs can mimic the signs of Cushings -- in fact, vets often refer to the effect in dogs as a "Cushingoid appearance" -- While Billy was taking the big drugs for IMHA he had FOUR TESTS for Cushings -- always negative but dang he sure looked the part!