Do you support BSL?

mrv

No, not in any form.  What I do support is higher licensing fees to increase revenues so there will be adequate staffing to enforce the statutes that have already passed.  The problem with BSL is it is a knee jerk reaction to a critical incident.  Emotions are high, politicians get the opportunity for face time with the media and the frenzy begins.  If BSL continues more and more breeds will be considered illegal.  I have owned Dobermans, GSDs and now Belgians...I do not wish to have my breeds of choice disappear and they will if the trend continues.

 Enforce leash laws, clean up laws and licensing and most of the situations that start the hyper responses will be eliminated.  I would even support a one bite rule, rather than give up a breed altogether.  It would break my heart if it was my dog, but I understand that may be a price that has to be paid for the freedom of choice.

Bonita of Bwana

Sorry but I have no problem with this.... If I can not do my job as a breeder, document every educational effort and what I do to select my breeding stock then I should NOT be breeding.  I would willingly pay fees to license my animals but my area does not require it... so for the lack of funding decent , loving dogs and cats are put down daily. I know breeder who have produced so many litter they can not tell me how many puppies and wher they are off the top of their head and even after some research they will miss many, 

 It has nothing to do with you "doing your job" as a breeder and everything to do with allowing the government to make breeding choices for us. That is never a good idea.

Bonita of Bwana

IF I could get my county to establish Responsible Breeding Laws NOW then all of you who live in areas already dealing with horrific animal issues could have a second choice of where to live and why. But I do not want all of you scampering here because there are NO rules and regulations enforced. I do not want YOUR issues becoming mine. I would far rather have limits , rules and regs in place that prohibit the abuse of breeds because there isn't anything stopping you from tying a dog out today.  My way is expensive. But in our current economy maybe, just maybe we need to short circut this cash cow from breeding poor quality animals until they can no longer produce ? And understanding owning  and Breeding a dog is  a LUXURY not a right. If you can not afford to do it right why allow you to keep on doing it??

 I'm sorry but "good breeders" with your AR type mindset confuse me. You're involved with breeding and showing, so AR groups would consider you the scum of the earth. Yet you not only support their ideas, you promote them. The worst part is that you seem to be missing that they want to stop you too. To the groups pushing for these laws that you feel are justified and wonderful, you are the enemy too. To them, you are one in the same with breeders who you feel "breed too much", breeders who sell puppies in parking lots or flea markets, breeders who don't health test or prove their dogs. PETA's latest campaign is that there are no responsible breeders and all breeders are repsonsible for killing shelter animals (ironic since PETA is personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of shelter animals...). I suspect HSUS is going to be following suit and I look for them to start promoting "responsible breeding laws" in the future. Such laws I think would look to regulate what a breeder can and can not do within their breeding program. And I suspect you'll say that such a thing would be wonderful but when it is illegal to linebred, breed any dog with any relative who has any health issue or breed for cosmetic traits which can cause health issues you may start worrying that your breed may not make it.

Check out "The Gathering Storm" aryicle http://breedingbetterdogs.com/ 

A good read if you are convinced that there is an "overpopulation" and that shelters HAVE to kill animals http://nathanwinograd.blogspot.com/

Bonita of Bwana

From 9-1982 to 11-2006

Pit Bulls had 1110 attacks reported with 104 deaths.

Rotties           409 attacks                      58deaths

Wolf Hybred      71attacks                       18deaths

GSD                 63attacks                       38deaths

Chow                40attacks                       16deaths

Akita                48attacks                          1death

Boxer              31attacks                           2deaths

Bull Mastiff      30attacks                           6deaths 

Statistically, GSD are most fatal.

No.  Absolutely not.  It's ridiculous to ban a whole breed, especially a breed that is generally friendly and good with people, a breed that was once the typical family dog.  The lab of 100 years ago.

I know many pit bulls and they're all lovely dogs owned by good people.  Dahlia has played with any number of them at the dog park and down in the local park that we sometimes allow the dogs to race around offleash in when no one is around.  They've been absolutely wonderful with her and with us.

And besides, banning a breed is going to do NOTHING in the long run.  Dog fighters and people who want a "tough dog" will just find another one to abuse.

crysania

No.  Absolutely not.  It's ridiculous to ban a whole breed, especially a breed that is generally friendly and good with people, a breed that was once the typical family dog.  The lab of 100 years ago.

I know many pit bulls and they're all lovely dogs owned by good people.  Dahlia has played with any number of them at the dog park and down in the local park that we sometimes allow the dogs to race around offleash in when no one is around.  They've been absolutely wonderful with her and with us.

And besides, banning a breed is going to do NOTHING in the long run.  Dog fighters and people who want a "tough dog" will just find another one to abuse.

I'm not picking on you, just using a post that is an exmaple of what I see on these threads.  BANNING a breed and BSL are two very different things.  Most of us agree banning a breed is stupid.  But BSL may not be "banning" - it can be ANYTHING that is breed specific.  SOme people who vehemntly oppose banning any breed are right behind BSL.  Not me..... anything breed specific is stupid, becuase it targets a breed - which is not the problem.  Improper breeding, training and care is the real problem.

Chuffy

I'm not picking on you, just using a post that is an exmaple of what I see on these threads.  BANNING a breed and BSL are two very different things.  Most of us agree banning a breed is stupid.  But BSL may not be "banning" - it can be ANYTHING that is breed specific.  And I still think it's stupid.

Unfortunately, many of the places that institute BSLs seem to be intent on banning the breed outright in their area and desrtoying any dog that they deem to be a pit bull or pit bull mix.  I agree that anything breed specific is stupid and I'm against all BSLs, but most places aren't interested in just restricting things for certain breeds.  They're interested in getting them out of their city/state/country/etc. all together, sometimes by whatever means necessary.

 I believe that anyone who supports BSL in any shape of form should take more strides to educate themselves. I recently read The Pit Bull Placebo by Karen Delise, and soon hope to read her other book Fatal Dog Attacks. The Pit Bull Placebo was truly ingenious.

Perhaps the most convincing argument against BSL isn't about why it is wrong to put such legislation into place, but for the FACT that it is innefective. It does not decrease dog bites. In fact, in several places dog bites and fatalities have increased since BSL has been put into place. Denver, Colorado is a WONDERFUL example of just this. Although they've had a ban since 1989, a number of fatalities have STILL occured, all by breeds of dogs NOT belonging to the "pit bull" breed type. 

Karen Delise also outlined in her book that in many instances of fatalities and dog attacks done by pit bulls, and all other breeds, that the owners were incredibly negligent, and quite a good amount had been or were reported to child services due to their negligence with their own children as well. It is rare to truly find a news story in which a dog attack is truly just pure accident and unexplainable. Almost always humans have directly caused it. 

It is just so so so wrong to continue what we awful humans have been doing too long by purposely escaping responsibility and consequences and allowing a wonderful species, the dog, to suffer due to our ignorance and negligence. 

I'm sure this won't be popular opinion around here but I support a ban on the breeding of pit bulls.  Why?  Because all reasons against a ban are for the interests of the owners and not the dogs themselves.  My reasons are not to protect people against dog bites, but to end suffering and abuse.  I've heard the argument that if you ban pits then another breed will just pop up in its place.  That may be true to some extent, but no breed in history has suffered such abuse as the pit bull and I don't believe any ever will. I support laws that reduce or end the suffering of the animals, not those who support the"rights" of owners. Yes pit bulls are wonderful, loving companions.  But there are hundreds of other breeds, and mixes, that are as well and to insist that a particular breed continues to exist for no reason other than for the very few responsible owners to gain personal gratification from owning from, is in my opinon selfish and does not have the interests of the  millions of abused dogs at heart.  We insist on their existance while the shelters fill up to the brim with pits and 99% of the public who is going to a shelter to adopt a dog for their family is not interested in them, while millions of perfectly adoptable dogs are gassed every year because there is no space. 

 The pit bull is not the first of its kind to experience the evil of humans. Not even close to it. PETA would have you believe that they are, and that no person woudl ever inhumanely treat, beat, abuse, or treat with such malice any other breed of dog... but that is perhaps one of the biggest peices of garbage I've heard concerning reasons to support BSL.

If one truly cares about the breed of dog, they find a way to help the dog without entirely eradicating them.  Why in the world would you ever want to punish a dog for something a human has done?

Also, the MYTH and LIE about NO people, other than dog fighters and irresponsible owners, go to shelters to adopt pit bulls is just another bunch of garbage that the terrorist organization PETA would have you believe.

Besides, if you'd like to go wth THAT route.. labs are a huge problem in shelters. Should we just ban those as well or automatically kill them considering "no one" goes to a shelter to look for a large black lab.

tessa_s212

Why in the world would you ever want to punish a dog for something a human has done?

Banning breeding is not punishing dogs, it's punishing people.  That's where the logic gets twisted.  There is nothing abusive about not putting a male and female pit bull together to breed. 

And I disagree that other breeds are treated the same as pit bulls.  Please name one breed in particular which has suffered like the pit bull has. 

If one truly cares about the breed of dog, they find a way to help the dog without entirely eradicating them.

Oh, and no I don't care about the "breed" of dog, I care about the dogs.  That's the difference between the anti-BSL and the people that care about the dogs, and not the concept of a breed.

 In the 19th century it was the Bloodhound and sometimes the Newfoundland. Soon thereafter it was the German Shepherd and Doberman Pinscher.

Pudel, although I understand you simply have not done the research to yet understand, what is hapenning currently is not anything new. Dogs have always been abused. Dogs have always been treated with such malice that it is no wonder that it finally attacks.Dogs have always been exploited and turned into vicious dogs by HUMAN hands.  Dogs have always been trained to be aggressive and to guard property. And it has ALWAYS been that it is these dogs that are mistreated, neglected and encouraged to be aggressive are most often involved in fatalities by dog attacks. 

Dog abuse is NOT a breed problem. Banning a breed of dog, though it currently suffers very very much abuse and mistreatment, will, by far, NOT end dog abuse. Not for this breed, not for any breed.

In the UK, who has had a ban for over a decade, it has been reported that there are more pit bulls in the country now than even before the ban. Bans are not effective, and if in the case of trying to end the breed's suffering, would be innefective in that respect as well. 

tessa_s212

Pudel, although I understand you simply have not done the research to yet understand, what is hapenning currently is not anything new. Dogs have always been abused.

Here is some research for you.  My local city shelter.  Please scroll through all 4 pages.

http://www.petharbor.com/results.asp?searchtype=ADOPT&start=4&friends=1&samaritans=1&nosuccess=0&orderby=Shelter&rows=25&imght=50&imgres=thumb&view=sysadm.v_nwyk&bgcolor=F1EFE2&text=000000&link=666666&alink=fbcd00&vlink=666666&fontface=arial&fontsize=10&col_hdr_bg=ACA899&col_hdr_fg=FFFFFF&col_bg=FFFFFF&col_bg2=F1EFe2&col_fg=000000&SBG=F1EFE2&shelterlist='NWYK','NWYK1','NWYK2'&atype=&where=type_dog,&PAGE=1

pudel

Here is some research for you.  My local city shelter.  Please scroll through all 4 pages.

Lol. Showing me a bunch of pictures of pit bulls in shelters is going to convince me? I've worked in a shelter for years. Not to mention, that alone is not credible enough "research" anyway because one shelter cannot be counted as the be all and end all of shelters. My local shelters, although we get in a fair number of pit bulls or pit bull mixes, we get in EVEN MORE beagles, labs or lab mixes, and german shepherd mixes. Another neighboring shelter gets in mostly all chow mixes. Truly, what was the point you were trying to get across?

"Only by stepping back from the swirl of present-day hysteria surrounding isolated cases of severe canine aggression and examining the problem from a broader and more objective perspective can we hope to understand and effectively address the human and canine behaviors which have contributed to these incidents."

What is happening is not new. It has been happening as early as the 19th century. 

tessa_s212

My local shelters, although we get in a fair number of pit bulls or pit bull mixes, we get in EVEN MORE beagles, labs or lab mixes, and german shepherd mixes. Another neighboring shelter gets in mostly all chow mixes. Truly, what was the point you were trying to get across?

 

 Well you obviously do not live in a metropolitan inner city where the pit bull culture persists, like I do.  Therefore, you have NOT seen the reality of the pit bull shelter situation like I have, although you are trying to paint yourself as the educated one and me as the ignorant one.  No one is breedinig beagles and labs so they can rip each other apart.  **content removed, rude**  I still have not heard one reason to support the breeding of pit bulls that is actually in the interest of the dogs themselves, and not the man-created concept of their "breed".

**content removed, rude/unnecessary**

I still have not heard ONE even somewhat logical or reasonable reason to support BSL. 

**content removed, rude**

Fact is, BSL does not decrease dog bites. No matter the reasoning of if it should or shoudln't be put into place... that is simple fact. It does not decrease attacks or fatalities. Therefore, there is no reason for it to be in place because it is mere waste of the people's tax dollars.