Poll: Spay/Neutring

erica1989

This past week we have gotten two litters of puppies, 3 preggy mommas (1 gave birth to 2 pups, the other had 9, we are still waiting on the 3rd - anyday now) and a handful of other "single" pups. We also have had in 4 preggy cats, and a ton of kittens, including bottle babies.

There has to be something that can be done about this. This was just in a weeks time. I'm waiting to see what will come in in the next few weeks, and puppy/kitten season is just starting for shelters.

I don't think cats and dogs can be treated as the same problem. There are large populations of feral cats in many places and in rural areas "barn cats" which is not comparable to the shelter dog issues. Here again though, it is often an issue of cost to alter animals. A friend of mine put a barn up and got horses a few years ago. Since then there has been a steady supply of cats dropped off at her house. She doesn't want these cats and they are not her cats but she doesn't want them killed either. When she inquired about low cost/free S/N at local shelters, one charges $40 a cat and the other has a six month waiting list. Neither of those options are really all that useful to someone who has cats dropped off on their property. No one is going to continue to spend $40 at a time every time a new cat shows up at their barn. And after 6 months of waiting for one free S/N, how many more cats show up? How many are there after the first one has a litter? And forget taking them to the shelter, hoping they'll find homes - there is a waiting list to get in and many "don't take owner turn ins", even if you are the owner soley because the cat showed up at your place. I really can't understand why cat shelters don't focus more on neuter/release and free or super cheap S/N of any cat brought to them. We have a multi-million dollar shelter in my area, with an on staff vet and they still charge I believe $60 for S/N, unles they are running a two for one "special".

 Even if all owners were forced to have altered dogs and only big breeders who altered puppies prior to sale were left, there would still be dogs in shelters because of irresponsible owners. And if it did happen to impact the shelter population, even a bit? Not to worry - plenty of stray dogs can be brought in from other countries ;)

AgileGSD

 Even if all owners were forced to have altered dogs and only big breeders who altered puppies prior to sale were left, there would still be dogs in shelters because of irresponsible owners. And if it did happen to impact the shelter population, even a bit? Not to worry - plenty of stray dogs can be brought in from other countries ;)

My point exactly.  Therefore we would have excess legislation with minimal or no impact. 

ok - so offer spay/neuter clinics at low cost. We have 3 in my immediate area. There's a website spotusa.org that offers low cost spay/neuter coupons. The SPCA offers free spay/neuter for pit bulls, Animal Services offers low cost vet care for people on government programs, there's another clinic the next county over, our shelter offers $35 dollar neuters twice a year. I think we are trying pretty hard to control our fair share of the pet population, but, in reality, is it doing any good? NO, obviously not.

I'm not saying a spay/neuter law would work by any means. Nor would laws put in place to stop irresponsible owners from having oops litters.

You say spay/neuter clinics are the only option. I don't think they are. We have them, and still are getting animals left and right.

erica1989

ok - so offer spay/neuter clinics at low cost. We have 3 in my immediate area. There's a website spotusa.org that offers low cost spay/neuter coupons. The SPCA offers free spay/neuter for pit bulls, Animal Services offers low cost vet care for people on government programs, there's another clinic the next county over, our shelter offers $35 dollar neuters twice a year. I think we are trying pretty hard to control our fair share of the pet population, but, in reality, is it doing any good? NO, obviously notYou say spay/neuter clinics are the only option. I don't think they are. We have them, and still are getting animals left and right.

 $35 is still more than most people are willing or able to pay to S/N multiple cats that people have dropped off. I wouldn't pay that for cats that weren't mine just because someone chose my house to dump them at.

 Why only free S/N for pit bulls? Why only low cost for people on goverment programs? I didn't say it was the only option but IME people just aren't real interested in having to pay for altering cats that aren't their's. If there was a regular free S/N day, more people who wanted to but couldn't afford it would have their pets altered. And most important - it remains their choice to do so.

 While I don't agree with everything Sternburg does - she has some awesome community programs like the pit bull weight pulls with cash prizes and Training Wheels. I can't help but feel like if more shelters were pro-active, it could help a great deal. I saw for myself people decide to keep their dogs when a shelter offered free monthly behavior help.

The clinic at the SPCA is only for pits to control the outrageous pit overpopulation. We have a bad fighting scene down here , and this is an effort to conrtol that.

Our Animal Control is a government funded facility - therefore, people on government funded programs get this as well.

Who's going to fund the free spay/neuter? It is NOT free to alter a pet. You need a vet, supplies, things in case something goes wrong - there is a lot more than you think that goes into altering a pet.

How do you want shelters to be more proactive? I think the ones near me, including the one I work for, are doing a darn good job, with the little support they have. What does this discussion have to do with Sue Sternburg or pit bull programs? We do offer behavior conseling over the phone, and low cost behavior specilists. I'm not talking about people wanting to surrender their adopted pets because of behavior problems. I'm talking about irresponsible people that allow their unaltered pets to wander, become pregnant, and add to the horrific pet overpopulation.

We have the clinics. Now what.

erica1989

We have the clinics. Now what.

I really don't think that we have the clinics to handle this.  What are their days and hours of operation.  Many people have to work every day and can't take the time off to get their pet to the clinic especially if they are low income.  How do people get to these clinics if they don't have private transportation, again a problem with low income and elderly people.  If you want a program to be successful it has to be convient for people to do especially low income people.  Also the subsidised neuter is only for people on assistance.  That sure is setting the bar high to get a break in the procedure.  Look at the ACT clinic in Tampa. It's spay day is only held once a month and only for feral cats.  Otherwise the prices aren't much better than a regular vet or one at petsmart. 

A successful program has be be widely available, easy to use, very cheap for all people, and well publiced.  The programs around here are none of those. 

I am curious about something you mentioned.  You state that there is a horrific overpopulation here.  I seem to remember you talking about taking in puppies from a shelter out of the area to adopt.  If there are so many animals why would your shelter take in dogs from other areas?

The adoption rate is higher where I am working. We take in animals from other shetlers only when we have space for it. And we take in adult dogs as well as puppies. Under no circumstances is an unaltered pet adopted out from our facility. I meant the state as a whole, well, the country even, has a horrible pet overpopulation.

SPOTUSA.org offers low cost spay/neuter coupons that you can take to almost any vet. You want convience? There you have it. Take it to your vet, or the vet around the corner. We live in different counties, Steve, in my county - there are radio ads, TV ads, newspaper ads, etc. for the low cost spay/neuter clinics and SPOTUSA.org. They have ads in restaurants and stores.

Several couties south of here has a moblie spay/neuter clinic run by their animal control. I would love to see one of those started here.

erica1989

I meant the state as a whole, well, the country even, has a horrible pet overpopulation.

Have you looked at any real statistics.  Not the stuff that the HSUS, PETA and the others AR's spout.  The Euth numbers have been steadily dropping for the last 30 years and the pct of neutered pets and the number of owned pets has been rising steadily those same 30 years.  You know that your shelter isn't full of 8 week old puppies looking for first homes.  It is dogs that had homes that for whatever reason get turned in.  You also know that it isn't the "little" dogs in there also.  You know what mostly the type of dog that is in the shelters.  Also the majority of animals in the shelters are cats. 

erica1989

SPOTUSA.org offers low cost spay/neuter coupons that you can take to almost any vet. You want convience?

That's great but tell me how people know to go looking for that site.  I don't know if this is the same site that someone I know checked into but when they filled in the information for the voucher there wasn't a vet within 60 miles of them that would honor the coupon.

erica1989

We live in different counties, Steve, in my county - there are radio ads, TV ads, newspaper ads, etc. for the low cost spay/neuter clinics and SPOTUSA.org. They have ads in restaurants and stores.

I listen to the same radio and same TV stations that you do and have yet to hear one add for a clinic or that web site.  I tell you that the information is just not getting out there.

erica1989

Several counties south of here has a mobile spay/neuter clinic run by their animal control. I would love to see one of those started here.

You have one in Pinellas.  Run by AC.  Look at the schedule.  They only go out once or twice a month and mostly to their shelter centers, not to the neighborhoods where it is most needed.  I have a friend that lives in Broward where they have a clinic on wheels.  The waiting list is over a year long and they won't go to convenient places in the county.

Actually, the mobile clinic is not run much any more - due to lack of funding (tax cuts). I know a tech that used to work on it - lost his job. There are radio ads on 94.9 and 100.7 all the time. There are flyers in petsmart, moe's, and panara bread company - to name a new places that I have seen.

I don't know why the vet would not honor that coupon - they do not lose any money over it. The customer pays a small, very small, portion of it, and the rest is paid for by funding from SPOT.

Pet Pal Rescue is opening up a new spay/neuter clinic in South County. They are already taking appointments.

Maybe my shelter is different than . We have at least 10 puppies in foster care, and 8 more in our kennels waiting for their surgery. And no, most of our adult dogs are not pit bulls - they are greyhounds. We work very closely with a kennel in Orlando, and take greys from them whenever we have room. We have close to 12 in our kennels right now. Yes - we do have a lot of pits - that's why the SPCA offers free altering of pit bulls and mixes.

Back to the original post...passing a law such as this or any other law just for the sake of in-acting another law would be virtually useless.  Enforcing a mandatory spay/neuter law would be impossible and those who are the greatest violators would still not become responsible pet owners.  Personally, I have always altered my pets.  That was my decision and the altering occurred when my vet and I decided it was best time for them.  As in the past, my fourteen week old puppy will be spayed when my vet and I decide it's the right time for her. 

I don't however; agree with not altering pets because 'they can't afford it.'  It is an expensive procedure...it's also major surgery.  I always wonder what the same pet owner would say if their pet required a trip to an emergency animal hospital.  I'm not trying to be harsh and I'm not implying they do not love their pets.  If a person prefers to have an un-altered pet, that's their decision.  Whatever a person's decision, what is most important is to be a responsible pet owner. 

Passing more laws and forced altering is not going to make irresponsible owners suddenly become responsible.

timsdat

A successful program has be be widely available, easy to use, very cheap for all people, and well publiced.  The programs around here are none of those. 

  You hit the nail on the head there and that is exactly what I have been saying. Also good point about the "overpopulation" statistics.

erica1989

Who's going to fund the free spay/neuter? It is NOT free to alter a pet. You need a vet, supplies, things in case something goes wrong - there is a lot more than you think that goes into altering a pet.

How do you want shelters to be more proactive? I think the ones near me, including the one I work for, are doing a darn good job, with the little support they have. What does this discussion have to do with Sue Sternburg or pit bull programs? We do offer behavior conseling over the phone, and low cost behavior specilists. I'm not talking about people wanting to surrender their adopted pets because of behavior problems. I'm talking about irresponsible people that allow their unaltered pets to wander, become pregnant, and add to the horrific pet overpopulation.

We have the clinics. Now what.

 Who is going to fund it? How about the shelter through fundraising and donations. I am not in a progressive area at all but still a private shelter here was able to build a multi million dollar facility, through fundraising and donations. Sue Sternberg was brought up due to a couple pro-active things she does through her shelter. I questioned why free altering only for pit bulls - do you really think the people who are part of the "dog fighting problem" are the ones bringing their dogs in for altering?

  IME most dogs at shelters are adolescent to adult dogs with no training. If the issue was really overpopulation, why are there so many adult dogs in shelters? Shouldn't there be oodles of litters of puppies turned in, only to be PTS because no one wants them? After all "overpopulation" would imply that there are too many new puppies being born and no homes for them.

AgileGSD

How about the shelter through fundraising and donations

And who is going to donate the money for this? Shelters are NOT rich agencies - they do not recieve government funding. We are putting all donations towards better kennels for our dogs and cats. After doing some research, many shelters around my area DO offer surgical services. We do have smaller programs - but we don't have the money to fund a spay/neuter clinic. Point blank - we just don't have it.

AgileGSD

do you really think the people who are part of the "dog fighting problem" are the ones bringing their dogs in for altering?

No. But - the pits that are stolen for fighting are the unaltered ones. Fighters don't want a fixed dog - they cannot breed it. They do just pits because that is what their grant is for. Free sx for pits and pit mixes. This program is funded through the spay/neuter license plate program.

AgileGSD

If the issue was really overpopulation, why are there so many adult dogs in shelters?

Because of puppies that were not spayed/neutered. Spay a dog - it cannot reproduce and cannot add to the pet population. Puppies grow old, they do not stay young forever. Overpopulation does not apply to just puppies. It means that there are more dogs than home avalible - not just puppies.

erica1989

No. But - the pits that are stolen for fighting are the unaltered ones. Fighters don't want a fixed dog - they cannot breed it. They do just pits because that is what their grant is for. Free sx for pits and pit mixes. This program is funded through the spay/neuter license plate program.

AgileGSD

If the issue was really overpopulation, why are there so many adult dogs in shelters?

Because of puppies that were not spayed/neutered. Spay a dog - it cannot reproduce and cannot add to the pet population. Puppies grow old, they do not stay young forever. Overpopulation does not apply to just puppies. It means that there are more dogs than home avalible - not just puppies.

 How does someone stealing a dog for fighting know if a bitch is spayed or not?

 If there are so many dogs and so few homes wanting dogs, how do shelters adopt any out? When shelters are having to get puppies and small dogs from other areas ( and even more so other countries) because they can't fill the demand in their own area, that is a sign of changing times as far as the whole idea of "overpopulation" goes. This is a pretty good article talking about the subject: http://www.mofed.org/Redefining.html

Sometimes, folks, stuff happens.  Plans get shot all to heck because of job loss.  NO ONE is immune from being downsized.  Well, unless perhaps they are wealthy or own the company or whatever.

So, "someone" sets age and time limits, someone determines X criteria for when a dog must be altered, and someone carefully registers each and every dog that is placed/sold/whatever.  A few months later, the pet parent is out of work.....the savings are dwindling because the economy is sluggish, lots of jobs are being lost, and folks aren't being hired elsewhere.  And the cost of gas to even job hunt is daunting. 

So, the time comes and goes, and the "reproductive police" realize that dog A isn't altered yet.  Then what?  Rip the dog out of a loving home that is doing everything under the sun to provide for said dog but simply can NOT right now afford a surgery for altering?  Impose a fine that those people simply can't pay? 

In a perfect world, everyone would be able to afford everything, including altering their animals.  But, in a perfect world, old people wouldn't be eating canned cat food, children wouldn't be going without medical care and PEOPLE wouldn't be homeless either.

Good and responsible people can go through some horrible things through no fault of their own.  In the REAL world, bad things happen to good people and darn it, we shouldn't make things worse for them by ripping their animals out of their loving arms.

IMHO it is not right for the government to take away MORE of our choices, including the choices that we make for our animals, whether by actual decision or just because "spit happens"  Rather than make and attempt to enforce even more laws, put the $$, which no one has determined the source of, to better use by educating AND providing free or really low cost altering.

There can be some very real issues with early altering.  It should be the decision of the owner and their vet when altering is done.  Not the governments.