Just what is baiting?

lostcoyote

what that suggest is that 1) either the mods are sleeping  2) that favoritism is going on here or 3) several people are under the microscope while others are not looked at -

 

I pick option 4.  That mods are human and make mistakes, and that everyone perceives things differently.  What is baiting to one might not be to another, and this being human and reading things differently kicks mods in the teeth sometimes.

Maybe this will help.....

 If you *intentinally* post something that you KNOW will get a rise out of someone in a passionate way it can be considered baiting..baiting to provoke someone will get you on the hot seat.

 An example of baiting...Great Danes should not be rehomed from rescue because they are too unpredictable, they are too stupid to learn how to behave in a responsible way even when trained with a prong or e collar... All Pit Bulls should be put to sleep, the only good one is a dead one

Both those examples would cause much discussion and there isn't truth to either one but the passionate people on this forum who I may have directed those statements too would jump all over me for writing that...Of course those passionate people would reply in a manner that might not be respectful and then they would be called on it...or so that is the impact I'd be hoping for...get it?

lostcoyote

either way, 2 standards are being invoked whether you guys realize it or not.

 

if you're not comfortable discussing it right here, then that only indicates insecurity.

i'm pretty sure that i've been singled out as a trouble maker and that's fine.... actually intentional on my part as showing what sort of double standards are going on around here.

LC, if I may be frank?

you just said you have been purposefully. bending or testing the rules here in order to prove something. I think it's very true that in life...people who do things like you have just said you do....are often not treated the same as people who choose to operate within the rules in a given situation and make the best of things.

Would you say that is an accurate statement?

See this is where biases come into play and that history and pattern comment from Rwbeagles.  "you KNOW will get a rise out of someone" versus I KNOW you KNOW will get a rise out of someone.  And that is very hard to detect and IMO unfair.

Pertaining to your example about the Great Danes, my first response would be to educate and communicate my experience.  If my response was met with a similar or worse comment, then it stops.  If there was a hint of progress, I would continue the dialogue.  I seem to have a consistent message, that you can not tell baiting from the original post.

Even though your examples are negative, the resulting discussion serves a greater good by putting out the truth and putting it out in volume. 

rwbeagles

lostcoyote

either way, 2 standards are being invoked whether you guys realize it or not.

 

if you're not comfortable discussing it right here, then that only indicates insecurity.

i'm pretty sure that i've been singled out as a trouble maker and that's fine.... actually intentional on my part as showing what sort of double standards are going on around here.

LC, if I may be frank?

you just said you have been purposefully. bending or testing the rules here in order to prove something. I think it's very true that in life...people who do things like you have just said you do....are often not treated the same as people who choose to operate within the rules in a given situation and make the best of things.

Would you say that is an accurate statement?

 I've seen it and am on here to correct it...come as it may, keep in mind what you are posting because when the fall out comes, it is you who is responsible for what you've posted

rwbeagles

you just said you have been purposefully. bending or testing the rules here in order to prove something. I think it's very true that in life...people who do things like you have just said you do....are often not treated the same as people who choose to operate within the rules in a given situation and make the best of things.

Would you say that is an accurate statement?

no, that's not accurate.

it's a colored subjective interpretation of what i stated.

what i said was this:

"actually intentional on my part as showing what sort of double standards are going on around here."

why not go back to all of the un-edited posts (if that's even possible) on the current alpha thread and critically examine the postings. i came in this morning and saw that my post to xerxes had been red-inked... leaving me scratching my head saying  something like "huuu? what the-f? i did not bait xerxes" 

and so here we are.

DPU

I was recently accused of baiting because I bring up in behavior problem threads whether a dog's needs are satisfied.  No one is perfect in their care of the dog and no one knows the perfect balance between food, affection, exercise, play, discipline, and others.  Each dog is unique and a well balanced dog does not have behavior problems, IMO. 

I am seeing a lot of this baiting accusation and I suspect it is a way to stop the dialogue and prevent new ideas from being explored or trying to stimulate a member to think differently.

So, just what is baiting?

You may be interested to note that I have just accused you of it again in the Disclaimer thread.  You posted something about me which is untrue, and I do not appreciate it.

DPU

See this is where biases come into play and that history and pattern comment from Rwbeagles.  "you KNOW will get a rise out of someone" versus I KNOW you KNOW will get a rise out of someone.  And that is very hard to detect and IMO unfair.

Pertaining to your example about the Great Danes, my first response would be to educate and communicate my experience.  If my response was met with a similar or worse comment, then it stops.  If there was a hint of progress, I would continue the dialogue.  I seem to have a consistent message, that you can not tell baiting from the original post.

Even though your examples are negative, the resulting discussion serves a greater good by putting out the truth and putting it out in volume. 

Exactly, it would strike a nerve and you would reply...now the reply itself would be what the baiting would be for..should you reply in a mild mannered way and keep emotions out of it all would be good and the baiting would fail...if you added in personal feelings such as a reply similar to, "you have no idea what you are saying, how many Great danes have you actually rescued? Did you ever think that maybe it was YOU who can't evaluate and redirect and train to improve the dog?????!!!!!" See how the baiting works to provoke and the baiter sits back and watches the rudeness follow....

DPU, I don't know if you're purposefully baiting, but you do come off as incredibly rude quite a bit of the time. To suggest to someone that the only reason their dog snatches a perfectly good food item off an accessible countertop when no one is looking is because they don't feed their dog enough (i.e., they are starving or neglecting their dog, which is a mighty serious accusation to make) is going to get people's hair up. And you make those sorts of claims, about people and dogs that you've never met, all the time.

Sometimes I really feel like you intentionally "misunderstand" what people say in order to be contrary. Half the time I don't even really know what you're talking about because what you say seems to be so totally removed from everything else that the thread has been discussing. And you claim that no one is perfect in their care of their dogs, but you regularly insinuate that the rest of us are not meeting our dog's most basic needs but you, alone among all dog owners everywhere, do and therefor your dogs are perfect. Whether you intend to come off as saying that or not, that's what it sounds like. You're perfect, the rest of us abuse our dogs, neglect them, starve them, "feed their obsessions", abuse them emotionally, manipulate them, turn them into robots, train them through serious deprivation, we don't rescue enough, we don't volunteer enough, and I won't even get started on the things you've said about the reputable breeders on this forum, and on and and on and on. I can't even remember the last time you said something positive about someone on this board. Sooner or later, that attitude is going to generate some serious ill will.

I try very hard to stay out of the deep end but sometimes enough is just enough. That's how baiting works. The baiter pushes and pushes and pushes until there's a reaction. Some people have a pretty low threshold for that kind of negative reaction, others have a higher one. But sooner or later if you say enough rude stuff, everyone's going to reach their breaking point. 

I understand what is being said and for me I think a good part of almost 3,000 post of mine were created because a nerve was struck, always with passion for the dog. 

If we follow your example dialogue, the last quote is the conclusion of the "baiting" episode.  It is what happens next that may require intervention.  But up until the conclusion statement, no one knows how it will turn out, good or bad.  So if stopped, then valuable information is lost and a turn around or changing someone else's thinking was prevented. 

Dave, if you really need an example of "baiting," I would be delighted to provide you with one.

DPU

If we follow your example dialogue, the last quote is the conclusion of the "baiting" episode.  It is what happens next that may require intervention.  But up until the conclusion statement, no one knows how it will turn out, good or bad.  So if stopped, then valuable information is lost and a turn around or changing someone else's thinking was prevented. 

You are correct to an extent. As Admin of this forum for over 3 years and a person with an open mind who has always allowed for debate and does not believe in censoring until proven I have learned to identify behavior patterns..they exisit and are being used on this forum ...often

If you are truely interested in the opinion of others it will turn out to be an interesting conversation where many will get something out of it...when it is observed that posts are made from other threads to continue to stir the pot and provoke behavior there is a problem and it will be dealt with...and yes, even not so positive behavior with moderators gets delt with as well when I am here 

DPU

I understand what is being said and for me I think a good part of almost 3,000 post of mine were created because a nerve was struck, always with passion for the dog. 

I think statements like this might be what prompted Cressida to post as she did.  Are you insinuating that the rest of us, no matter how many or few posts we have, are NOT passionate about the welfare of dogs??

Dogs don't countersurf because they are hungry.  They countersurf because they don't realize that we don't want them to, because they smell something good up there, or because they have found good stuff up there in the past.  People who feed raw, who feed organic, who feed kibble, and who feed moist, and who meet all of their dogs' other needs have experienced having their dogs countersurf.   Your premise that dogs countersurf because their owners don't meet the dogs' needs (other than the need for training and management of that particular issue) is insulting and erroneous, and, yes, baiting.  Why would you not expect that people would be incensed at being told that they aren't meeting their dogs' basic needs when, in fact, they are?

lostcoyote

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