Silver labs?

SO, i own a silver labrador. A full bred lab. Its mother/father were chocolate and black. tell me then how a weim got in there? The breeder i got my puppy from was not out to get silver. In this liter there were 1 black 2 choc and 2 silver. There are such things as silver labs, as in the COLOR silver. No the AKC does not recognize them yet. My puppies parents were AKC and, like i said, were not expecting silver pups. When they looked into silver labs they realized that they could infact register them as "chocolate" but the akc doesnt really approve of this. SO they decided against registering the silvers. Mainly because they were friends of mine and knew i just wanted a silver lab for the looks. Not to breed, show, ect. just because i think they are beautiful. My vet agreed, Silver is a fluke. Its a recessive (sp?) gene that certain labs have to carry and occasionally silver pops up. Its too  unpredictable and rare to manage to get a good line of silver. Now i will say this, as a warning. I am not in anyway a breeder of dogs. I love my boys as pets, thats all. But my vet warned me if i were to ever breed my puppy NOT to breed it with another silver lab or "silver facotred" lab. They just dont make for good pups, health reasons, ect. She said probably steer clear or choc also, because choc is also a recessive gene. So if your looking for a lab that is SILVER in color, that is full lab, they ARE out there and they are not inbred, cross bred ect. Just flukes. But georgus ones. They have all the same lab traits and personalities. I will say my puppy is by far smarter at his age than my other 2 dogs. ( who are just rescue mutts). We love our silver lab to death!!

ashleyt85

ts mother/father were chocolate and black. tell me then how a weim got in there?

Not all breeders are ethical and put actual ancestry on their paperwork.  This is getting more difficult to do, but has been done for years.  Essentially they lie about who the stud was.  I'm not saying YOUR breeder did this, but that is how you get weim in there.

Glad you love your dogs :)
 

Wanted to also say, I looked at your pictures, beautiful puppy (Buck your silver lab), really quite striking! I noticed he has blue eyes that will probably change as he ages, but I did want to point out that's a distinctly weimaraner trait (they are born with blue eyes which change to amber or gray-blue as they mature, usually around 18 months of age they are the color they will be for life).  Maybe someone with lab experience would know what color chocolate, black and yellow labs eyes are?  Do they start light (or blue) and mature into the black you usually see?

Sera_J

Wanted to also say, I looked at your pictures, beautiful puppy (Buck your silver lab), really quite striking! I noticed he has blue eyes that will probably change as he ages, but I did want to point out that's a distinctly weimaraner trait (they are born with blue eyes which change to amber or gray-blue as they mature, usually around 18 months of age they are the color they will be for life).  Maybe someone with lab experience would know what color chocolate, black and yellow labs eyes are?  Do they start light (or blue) and mature into the black you usually see?

Jack is a chocolate and his eyes have been the same but according to other lab people labs can be born with blue/light blue/greenish/hazel eyes and have the color change as they get older...

I found an interesting page on silver labs...

http://www.labbies.com/silver.htm

Also, it's good to keep in mind that not all labs are the standard yellow, black, and chocolate.  Some are perfectly purebred, yet born mismarked.  There are labs occasionally born with rust markings, brindle, etc.  Not in standard and not something to breed for, but it does happen....

 http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/mismarks.html

 And if anyone wants to get even further into it here's another good link...

About the blue eyes.....I knwo that is usually a weim trait and i can honestly say I personlly have not seen full labs with blue eyes. I asked my vet about it and he said the blue eyes (that yes probably will change to a gray color) was something that came alot with the silver coloring. Another genetic default. My breeder was not trying to get silver labs. She didnt even know there was a such thing so i am very doubtful that there would be any reason to have  bred a weim into her labs. That would be why breeders of silver labs use weims. to get the silver. but she wasnt a breeder of silver. just pure bred labs who had a mixed liter and 2 silvers popped up in. I will agree that I feel ALOT of "strictly silver" breeders are either cross breeding OR finding true silver labs and breeding both together (wich doesnt make for good genetics according to my vet). If i wanted to really get into it you could get "silver factored" labs that have that gene in them and breed them with silvers but my vet was leary about it. Also of the silver labs out there are bred to get the silver. I happen to get lucky and just came across one of the rare "out of the blue" full silver labs....

Sera_J

...I noticed he has blue eyes that will probably change as he ages, but I did want to point out that's a distinctly weimaraner trait (they are born with blue eyes which change to amber or gray-blue as they mature, usually around 18 months of age they are the color they will be for life).  Maybe someone with lab experience would know what color chocolate, black and yellow labs eyes are?  Do they start light (or blue) and mature into the black you usually see?

For the most part, brown eyed/dark pigmented dogs are born with blue/grey eyes that darken as the pup gets older.  Adult dogs that have gold eyes/pink pigment tend to be born with green/grey eyes (like Britts, red Siberian Huskies, "dudley" Labs, etc).  This isn't the same shade of pink that is common in Dals and Aussies that are deaf.  it's more of a terra cotta color than pink really.

Well, weather it's mixed or not, its pretty. But be carefull, blue and silver dogs tend to have skin issues.

I had a purebred black lab with bolo marks too.....one on each paw! His mother had none, but she did have a white spot on her chest, I'm not sure about his sire....non of his litter mates had any odd marks.

You're missing the point, I think. It doesn't matter that your breeder wasn't trying for silver. At some point in the past, before your breeder, Weim was probably introduced into the line, which is what Sera J was trying to say. The dilution is a recessive and doesn't necessarily show up in several generations (part of the definition of recessive). Beautiful dogs and I am in no way saying that your dogs are not fine. But, according to standard, they should not be silver. My dog, only part Lab, is no way standard, and not just because of the cross-breeding but because he is over standard height at 26 inches to the shoulder and slightly under weight at 65 lbs.

Your dog could still be fine, even as a purebred. In a purebreeding, one is lucky if two or three of the pups are show-worthy just because they match the standard exactly. The others are deemed "pet quality" because they can't show.

It's possible Weim was used to get the silver way back when, but it's also possible it's just been there for many generations.  There's no limit to how long a recessive can be passed on, before meeting another somewhere and expressing.  This is why in some breeds the recessive trait is discouraged, because it leads to "surprises" down the road and the show ring is all about conformity, not variations, especially unpredictable ones. 

In BCs, there's no physical standard so dilutes show up in some lines, every so often, to the amusement of others (because "candy colors" are rather looked down upon in the working world) and the surprise of the breeder.  But no harm is actually done, and if the dilute is an outstanding worker and producer, so one will actually care what his color is.  there's also a variation of the dilute that is so dark that it is difficult to see unless you are very alert when the litter is born.  One of Ted's littermates was this color, so he likely carries dilute.  He also carries red.

Dilute can sometimes be associated with allopecia, a thinning or loss of hair, and sun sensitivity. 

The problem with breeding "for" silver, is that you are breeding for two recessive traits at once, severely restricting your choices.  Instead of picking the healthiest, soundest individuals in general, you are picking the ones that are both chocolate, and also carry dilute.  This is a great way to also concentrate recessive traits that are harmful, in your lines.

 I don't think that every time something 'abnormal' shows up it always means a mix is involved.  Silver is a recessive and if it was so rare, it could've taken a long time for it to show up.  Now, it IS fishy that it is showing up so much lately and that to me indicates (obviously) some non-reputable breeding practices to breed just for that color or even some breeders crossing to other breeds to get the rare color. 

 Dilutes DO show up every now and then in many breeds.  I've seen a chocolate purebred cavalier king charles.  Papillons come in chocolate and it's actually showable but you never see them.  (They're slightly faulted for nose pigment but honestly I don't know what a judge would do if they were confronted by a chocolate papillon).  There are even 'silver' and white papillons that have shown up before.  I used to know where a picture was, but I can't find it.