It appears that I *don't* have an actual Golden Rtrvr....

stanton

 Then I won't bother with the test....going a different route to see if I can close in on his background, and will take him to the vet to see if he perhaps has a microchip, I asked the foster parent if she ever had him checked for having one, she said no.  I will also contact any breeders I can in and around that particular area in Texas to see if anyone came up missing a tiny puppy at the time.

So if Rivers turns out to be someone's missing pet, are you willing to give him back?

Also, why is it so important to prove he's a NSDTR and not a Golden?

stanton

have ANY of you literally seen a Novia Scotia Retriever close up??

Yes.  There are a few that run agility here in our state so I see these dogs quite a bit.

Here's what a breeder in our state had to say:

on rethinking I'll just PM it to the OP.

agilebasenji

stanton

 Then I won't bother with the test....going a different route to see if I can close in on his background, and will take him to the vet to see if he perhaps has a microchip, I asked the foster parent if she ever had him checked for having one, she said no.  I will also contact any breeders I can in and around that particular area in Texas to see if anyone came up missing a tiny puppy at the time.

 

So if Rivers turns out to be someone's missing pet, are you willing to give him back?

 

Also, why is it so important to prove he's a NSDTR and not a Golden?

I'd like to know what he is, period.

If someone had my missing pet and I so wanted him back versus the kind of life he'd been given for the last few months, I would want that option to choose.

stanton

I'd like to know what he is, period.

Well he is a very nice handsome dog!!!

Thank you all for your help in my anxiousness to provide assistance in the breed that he is.

He is a very beautiful dog, and I'm proud to own him.

Per a community dog member here, I've gained assistance and an actual NSDTR breeders advise on the deciding factor of him being mostly Golden...don't love him any different.

Thank you all for your help, I greatly appreciate it.

I have seen a couple of tollers in person. The photos you posted don't make it easy to tell what he is, and his head shape simply doesn't look toller to me.
From the AKC website:

There is no authentic record of the development of the Toller, but present day thinking is that the basic stock was the red decoy dog, probably brought to Nova Scotia with the early settlers from Europe. Crosses with other breeds, possibly spaniel and setter-type dogs, retriever-type dogs, and farm collie, produced today's Toller.

corgipower

I have seen a couple of tollers in person. The photos you posted don't make it easy to tell what he is, and his head shape simply doesn't look toller to me.
From the AKC website:

There is no authentic record of the development of the Toller, but present day thinking is that the basic stock was the red decoy dog, probably brought to Nova Scotia with the early settlers from Europe. Crosses with other breeds, possibly spaniel and setter-type dogs, retriever-type dogs, and farm collie, produced today's Toller.

However, he could still be a toller. I have a corgi who structurally resembles a vallhund more than a corgi. That's what corgi's looked like in the 30's. I have seen GSD's that look more like mals and mals that look more like GSD's and the entire issue of whether or not brindle occurs in mals has never been difinitively resolved. Funny thing about genetics. He could be a toller with a head that looks more like a one of the breeds ancestors.
And since tollers are one of the breeds that is still bred for work more than for a uniform "look", it is even more possible.

I was once owned by a Dalmatian/Alaskan Malamute....I'm sure you can guess what she looked like, but she definitely had the hair type/thickness of the Malamute, beautiful girl....but sometimes I wonder if she was actually part Husky or perhaps Akita. I wouldn't have loved her any different, but sometimes you just want to *know* you know....I guess I'm just truly curious to what he is because everyones calling him a Golden via his looks, but his personality is nothing like the many upon many Goldens I've known through the years.

If his personality was of a Golden I wouldn't question it, but there's just something different about it...maybe it's due to what ever he's mixed with, but it isn't a Collie....every Collie I ever had was only smart when they wanted to be, this guy is right on the money and has the exuberance of a breed I've never seen or dealt with before.

I've had and been around Goldens, Labs, Huskies, Collies, Shephards, Heeler's, Malamutes, American Eskimo's, he, too me doesn't have any of these personality's, which is the nature of my question, cause I'd like to deal and work with the natural way of his background in games to play...he's only interested in fetching a ball for a very short time and actually enjoys something *new* every day, he gets tired of any newly acquired toys or games almost immediately, it's like they don't interest him for long....but what does is the *chase*, but not the chase of just anything...he cry's when he sees a deer in fact. He has a curiousity that I've never seen before in a dog.

I'm not into hunting and have no desire to start hunting fowl, but maybe he would have fun at retrieving *fake* fowl.

My ultimate goal is to get him into agility and perhaps field games...but the field game clubs mostly take place in the midwest or south. He will be a hiking, fishing, camping buddy in the great Rocky Mountain region as well.

corgipower

From the AKC website:

There is no authentic record of the development of the Toller, but present day thinking is that the basic stock was the red decoy dog, probably brought to Nova Scotia with the early settlers from Europe. Crosses with other breeds, possibly spaniel and setter-type dogs, retriever-type dogs, and farm collie, produced today's Toller.

If the above statement is true. And, if it is true that Rivers is a Golden/Collie mix, then it would make sense to me that he would have many of the same physical attributes and behaviors as a Toller.

As a final posting to this thread....I've carried on long enough and got way too overly excited and anxious about a breed that's rare and different, and was just hoping that it was the answer to why he's so different in personality then other dogs of his breed.

I apologize if I came on powerful, I was not aiming too, I was just hoping to find an answer in how to go about working with his background, as he does not enjoy the typical games/learning desires of most retrievers or collies, and was hoping that I could hit on something that'll keep him from getting bored so easily.

I completely appreciate everyone's advise, I do tend to come off overly anxious about things...that's the way life is anymore right?? And for that I apologize, I hope that I'm still welcome on this board as I don't love Rivers any different...just wish I knew what his *thing* is and how to keep him from boring out so quickly.

Hopefully spring/summer comes quick in which we can do more outdoor activities.

Again thank you all for your help and support in my hidiousness, I'll refrain from posting any further into this topic.

I'll admit to not reading every single one of the replies in this thread, but being a die-hard Toller person and owner of one, I wanted to give my opinion on Rivers. I honestly don't see any Toller at all in him. His shape overall is wrong, his colour is too yellow, he has greyish tones around his muzzle, the expression is not Toller like, etc. I can't even begin to tell you how many medium sized dogs with a brownish coat and white feet are impounded every year and claimed to be Tollers. It's a common coat pattern/colour. "Loves chasing birds, loves snow/water, has an eye of an eagle" are not necessarily Toller traits. My Doberman and my Rottweiler do those same things... granted, they don't love water, but your dog obviously has some sort of retriever in him to give him that trait. I see a lot of (field type) Golden while looking at Rivers, and maybe some Border Collie, as well as something else that I can't quite put my finger on. He could have some Toller in him... but chances are very slim. Actual Toller mixes have a very distinctive look to them... you can 99% of the time tell that they have Toller in them. And Toller mixes are incredibly uncommon. There's probably like a 1 in 300 chance of ever coming across one. He's definitely a nice looking dog, but I wouldn't be calling him a Toller mix.

Oh, and that brings me to another point, they are never, ever called "Novia Scotias". It's either Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, Duck Toller, NSDTR, or Toller. Not an important point, but just something that was bugging me throughout the thread.

stanton

If his personality was of a Golden I wouldn't question it, but there's just something different about it...maybe it's due to what ever he's mixed with, but it isn't a Collie....every Collie I ever had was only smart when they wanted to be, this guy is right on the money and has the exuberance of a breed I've never seen or dealt with before.

Totally offtopic..but orangedog reminds me of the trouble us beauceron owners are going through now..(more so the big breeders into rescue but you get what i mean)..how every individual/shelter is listing their black/tan tailed dog as a beauce.  And while, dont get me wrong, some of them actually are beaucerons, thats been very very few..its (just like the toller) just not a common dog in the U.S.  And finding a stray of one is rare, and finding a mix of one even less common.

stanton

have ANY of you literally seen a Novia Scotia Retriever close up??

Yep, there were a few of them at our obedience/rally show on Sunday.  They are one of my favorite breeds. 

yep, i acutally have a couple of friends that have them..and even showed with one of them this past weekend. (shes an AKC and UKC champ..and a pretty good example of the breed i'd say too.)