English Labs / Square heads

Marley is an English Lab!!! He's short and stocky, but he's so skinny!!! Hopefully he will start to fill in more. He's 15 months. I know the AKC standards are English Lab standards because they mostly show English Labs in the ring. They should be between 65-80 Ibs. Anyway, here's a picture.



And here is Marley's "Dad" Jake... http://home.socal.rr.com/esoneson/jake/
He's very English looking!

I met a guy with a yellow English lab in Springfield, MO. I had never seen one before but I knew he was different than the "regular" lab we see so often. Why is it that the British versions of many breeds are shorter and stockier (eg. bulldog, lab, etc.)?

Jake looks a lot like my boy Parker.  I wouldn't worry about Marley filling in...most Labs get pretty big. I was able to free feed ( leave the food out) Parker until about 15 months and then after that I had to give him Portion control or he would have ate himself to death. He only gets 3 cups a day and is 110lbs.

The only answer I can think of, as to why the English breeds are stockier, is that most of the English breeds are still used as working stock.  The English breeders aren't attempting to change the breeds, but breed to conform to standard.  American breeders are always fussing to "improve" the breeds. 
 
The reason I say this is that I go to dog shows and I see Ridgebacks that are well above standard, the same with Pharaoh Hounds and I see Frenchies that are too small.  The dog "fancy" is breeding the large dogs larger and the smaller ones smaller.  It's a shame really because they are breeding dogs that cannot do the jobs that they were originally meant to do.

Parker looks great! The dam of Marley's litter was a yellow lab! I think 3 of the labs in his litter were yellow and 4 were black. There were 2 left when we went to choose. The other one was very boxy, but we chose Marley because he had a more mellow temperment (if lab puppies can be mellow). Don't know why English Labs are more boxy and stocky!!!

Here is his litter...puppies are soooo cute!
Justine

Marleys a real cutie and yes it's very possible to get a mellow Lab. Parker was the most mellow Lab ever and still is at 3 yr old. As a matter of fact whenever were out at PetsMart or the parks I always get at least one person saying.." Oh ..look at the old doggy " Then I tell them he's only 3 and they say " Oh my gosh he's soo mellow"  We never had a problem with him chewing or anything.  We drove from Phx. Az.  to Klamath Falls, Or. to get him and he was from 2 litters together. So try picking a Lab from 22 puppies. I have a pic somewhere I will try and post lol. Too Funny. This is our first Labrador and I will always choose another one from now on.

Wow jake is a handsome guy, what a stud!
 i live in AZ also, most labs i see around me have a much more narrow head, with a slimer build, dosent look right to me, .i rarely ever see a good looking lab like your boy

I always just considered them field Labs(working) and bench Labs(show).  I didn't realize that the country really had anything to do with it.  I see lots of bench-looking Labs and not many field Labs.  The reason the British dogs are stockier is because they were not made to cover as much ground and needed to get through dense undergrowth.  Take foxhounds for example.  England is smaller than the USA and therefore has smaller forests with more undergrowth.  They needed smaller, stockier dogs that could go straight through the forest to get to the fox.  When they came to America, they had a lot more forest with less undergrowth.  The dogs that did the best in this new habitat were the ones that were a little taller and leaner than the English dogs.  The dogs that were the best hunters were the ones that were bred and the offspring slowly got taller and leaner.  This is about what happened with most working breeds as they came from England to America.  Cute dogs by the way.  I usually prefer the field types, but they're all cute.

Just have to add I too have an english lab with a nice square head. I often get asked what kind of dog he is, which I have to say always strikes me as funny, so I usually make up so crazy breed. When I asked people what they think he is I ussually get Newfoundland. My boy is only 70-75 pounds and he will be 2 in a few weeks. He is also VERY heavily coated and shiney. He also sheds like crazy.

I'm probably totally wrong but I was always under the impression that we had regular labs and those Chesapeake Retrievers that have the nice square heads. hhhmmm, I just might have to look into that!

The person who posted about Bench and Field types is correct, if you watch any breed competition in the USA the dogs look like what I guess you folks are calling 'English'...they are cobby dogs with square heads. The field type lab is longer, leaner with a more pointed muzzle....longer neck and legs...oftentimes with a thinner tail.
 
Really has little to do with the country and a lot to do with the purpose of the dog.
 
From the AKC standard:
"Head
Skull--The skull should be wide; well developed but without exaggeration. The skull and foreface should be on parallel planes and of approximately equal length. There should be a moderate stop--the brow slightly pronounced so that the skull is not absolutely in a straight line with the nose. The brow ridges aid in defining the stop. The head should be clean-cut and free from fleshy cheeks; the bony structure of the skull chiseled beneath the eye with no prominence in the cheek. The skull may show some median line; the occipital bone is not conspicuous in mature dogs. Lips should not be squared off or pendulous, but fall away in a curve toward the throat. A wedge-shape head, or a head long and narrow in muzzle and back skull is incorrect as are massive, cheeky heads."
"Size, Proportion and Substance
Size--The height at the withers for a dog is 22½ to 24½ inches; for a bitch is 21½ to 23½ inches. Any variance greater than ½ inch above or below these heights is a disqualification. Approximate weight of dogs and bitches in working condition: dogs 65 to 80 pounds; bitches 55 to 70 pounds."

 
From the brit UK standard:
"Head and Skull
Skull broad with defined stop; clean-cut without fleshy cheeks. Jaws of medium length, powerful not snipy. Nose wide, nostrils well developed. "
"Size
Ideal height at withers: dogs: 56-57 cms (22-221/2 ins); bitches: 55-56 cms (211/2-22 ins)"
 
Here's a pic of a dog from Wales...and  links to Labs bred for SHOW in the USA...I don't see a big difference folks.
[linkhttp://www.riorocklabs.com/decoy.htm]http://www.riorocklabs.com/decoy.htm[/link]
[linkhttp://www.beachbrooklabradors.com/solly.html]http://www.beachbrooklabradors.com/solly.html[/link]
 

Hi Pulipal,  I had to laugh so hard when you said they ask what kind of dog you have. I get the same thing almost daily someone will ask me if he is either part Rotty or part Saint Bernard.  No scroll up to my Parkers picture and tell me...does he look like a St. Bernard? I mean I know he's big but come- on...lol

I know that one of Marley's brothers gets asked if he is part Rottie all of the time!

RWBeagles-
I don't know if you are the kind of person who likes to make people feel stupid...if you have to always be right or what???

But the AKC standard for a Labrador Retriever is the "English" or "Bench" lab if you will. So, all show Labs in the USA are English Labs!!! If you know anything about the Labrador Retriever Club (Hmmm...but you breed Beagles, huh?) you would know that there is actually a big controversy about the standards for the Lab! Anyway...there is a difference...and let me think...my breeder, who shows Labs, called him an "English Lab" when I asked what kind of Labs they were over the phone. I'm sure she had no idea what she was talking about...[]

I can't believe that someone would take that much time to make others feel stupid. By the way, can you tell that I took offense?

I pointed out that the Labs you are speaking of as appearing different...are Field type dogs in most cases...and the "English Lab" you mentioned having is in fact more correctly the Bench style or show dog seen via Westminster etc. English Labs...bred in England very closely resemble the Bench style dog...not so much the Field.
 
It's not really any trouble at all to know a breeds standard, a breeds name, and what it should look like as far as conformation. I see them quite often at shows. Education is never a trouble, and is always worth the time. If you do not find it educational because you already know all there is to know about your breed...then perhaps the next person will, such is the beauty of archiving...and it may be of some help to them.
 
Bench style dogs are not commonly seen simply because the average BYB which sadly is where MOST people but their Labs...for a couple hundred dollars in the newspaper...breed dogs that are markedly poor in conformation as far as the standard is concerned...having the characteristics I mentioned. Labs like Beagles...vary widely depending on what the particular line comes down from..field or show stock. It must be a struggle for reputable Lab breeders of the Bench type to find people who think of more than the cost of the dog...and to consider buying one from health tested parents who've been proven in the ring or in the field or both...when they're so darned easy to buy for so litle from a BYB. A constant challenge Beagle folks and Golden folks etc face every time they have pups to place.
 
I know many a breeder who's refered to "Golden Labs" and "White Labs" as well..does that make them correct also, just because they are a breeder?
 
As to them being English...of course they are...if they were born in England.