what do you all think?

Honestly? they spend a lot of time on their site talking up their dogs, and talking down other types nd registries. That is a red flag to me. Why talk so loud? If your dogs are out there getting titles on whatever end of their name...why have such big print about how wonderful they are? The website just screams "used car salesman" to me, personally. I also don't know about importing all their dogs...how can you know what the ancestors of the dogs were like if you cannot meet any of them? How can you interpret a pedigree in Russian? they seem against gimmicks yet they themselves have one "Euro Dobermans"...lol.
 
I dunno. My radar is tingling. I'd ask on a Dobe list personally.
 
ETA: E Europe is known for it's mills and puppy farms. Just something to throw out there.

 
 

thanks, gina!

I don't trust the Easter European and Russian breeding program at all, just think of all the years behind the iron curtain[8|] Not to mention E Europe still has some old fashioned, out dated ideas of how things need to be done.....
 
I do hope you find the puppy you are looking for....Good luck.[]

You might want to PM Bevolasvegas or Miranadobe for some first hand info.
 
I have seen only two Euro-dobies, both from working stock.  They were shorter and stockier than most American dobies, with a great intense look that pulled me in. 
 
The ones on the link you posted, didn't look like they were from working lines-which I find to be a more stable dog anyways.  And like Gina says, had they not oversold their dogs I would have been more impressed.  But they were very clean looking dogs.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

1. How can you interpret a pedigree in Russian? 

2. Europe is known for it's mills and puppy farms. Just something to throw out there.

I have just surfed in to the forum and here is what I can see...

1. The link wich has been given goes to a site of an Ukrainian breeder. The pedigree would be in Ukrainian, not in Russian. And how to interpret it? First - study the Cyrilic letter, second - visit the sworn Ukrainian translator.

2. Have you visited any puppy farm in Europe? Or at least any mill outsied the Netherlans?
European breeders are reputable breeders, canine science founders, those who win most World Winner titles.

ORIGINAL: snownose

I don't trust the Easter European and Russian breeding program at all, just think of all the years behind the iron curtain[8|] Not to mention E Europe still has some old fashioned, out dated ideas of how things need to be done.....

I do hope you find the puppy you are looking for....Good luck.[]

Can you realize that the communisms ended nearly 20 years ago...

The biggest dog show ever organized was the FCI World Dog Show in Poznan, Poland (Central Europe), where over 20,000 dogs were presented.

Why do you think our breeding is supposed to be "old fashioned"? Any proves or background for such opinions?

Well, there certainly was a lot of shouting on that page about how swell this breeder's dobies are compared to everyone else's but remarkably little objective evidence. I'll confess that since I'm on dial up and the site was taking forever to load, I didn't read the entire site. But I patiently waited for quite a bit of it to load, and never saw mention of any of the breeding dogs being OFA'd. Perhaps the Euro imports pass other hip evaluations, but there is no mention that I saw of offspring of those imports being evaluated. The site did say "no bleeders" but it never did state that the dogs are specifically tested for their vWd status.

And for all the huzzah's about what swell working dogs these are, I didn't see mention of any working titles. There was some vague mention of ancestors passing European temperament tests, but nothing about what current generations are being tested on. No AKC obedience or agility titles, no Schutz titles, no tracking titles. Zippo. Nada. You would think that someone who was producing so many wonderful working dobies would have a CD or NA or ScH 1, or TD to brag about somewhere on that website that took forever to load.

I maybe wouldn't totally eliminate this breeder, but I would ask the following questions:
a) what titles have the PARENTS of your prospective litter earned. None of this "from Champion lines" bs, which can mean one CH four generations back, but what have the PARENTS accomplished.
b) the bitch that has produced "many" CH's? Exactly how many is many? And how many total puppies has she produced? How many times was she bred?
c) OFA and/or PENN hip results on the American born breeding stock? And what hip evaluations were done on the imports?
d) vWd status of both parents? None of this "no bleeders" bs. There is a genetic test for vWd. What exactly were the results of that test?
e) How many bitches and dogs does the breeder own? How many litters are bred per year?

I am not going to get caught up in a political battlefield, but I lived in Germany for many years, I have friends who still live there.......I hear stories of immigrants from those countries......
 
I saw a documentary of russian hospitals and facilities of orphans a couple of years ago.....horrible conditions and treatment......the way I see it, a country that can treat it's own people like that can't be much better with animals.

ORIGINAL: Unur

2. Have you visited any puppy farm in Europe? Or at least any mill outsied the Netherlans?
European breeders are reputable breeders, canine science founders, those who win most World Winner titles.

I'm sure Europe has, just as America does, plenty of puppy mills.  Unfortunately I think it is something that no part of the world can avoid - they are everywhere.  I do not doubt that there are fantastic breeders in Europe, and have indeed heard of some.  I don't think anyone in this thread meant to offend, even though I can see how it was taken.  I think it's similar to some areas of the US - Pennsylvania for example is known to be a big puppy mill state.  Perhaps there are parts of Europe that are also known to be large puppy mill areas (I've honestly never heard of any before, but I'm sure there are some) and that is why some people from the US have some negative connotations.  I think we all need to be careful not to tread on each others' toes - there are indeed people from all around the world on this forum and we ought to be more open.

I went to the website and read this: 
 
I WILL NOT breed a line KNOW to die young (under 8 from Cardio)
And Don't fool yourselves folks ALL lines have Cardio .
 
 
 
[font="times new roman"][color=#000000]I haven't read beyond this point, but doesn't this seem strange?  If she doesn't breed to lines with Cardio, and all lines have Cardio, who's she breeding to?  If you want a healthy dog, look for health certs.  [/color][/font]

Uhm, okay, about 2 lines down:
 
I WILL NOT breed a hyper-thyroid dog, or bleeders.

 
Now, I've never known a hyperthyroid dog, hypo - YES.  Hyperthryoid cat - yes.  Not saying it never happens, but a hyperthyroid dog is exceedingly rare.  Of course it could just be a typo.  [sm=2cents.gif]

You all are awesome. I've been looking at some different breeders now.
I did notice a lot of grammatical errors on the website--but overlooked them. I agree though, the website seems like it's almost shouting and it's kinda repetitive.

ORIGINAL: snownose

I am not going to get caught up in a political battlefield, but I lived in Germany for many years, I have friends who still live there.......I hear stories of immigrants from those countries......

I saw a documentary of russian hospitals and facilities of orphans a couple of years ago.....horrible conditions and treatment......the way I see it, a country that can treat it's own people like that can't be much better with animals.

 
Well, Germany is one of my favourite countries in Europe, I just live about 2h drive from the German borderline and I have wonderful friends there. We respect one another that much that we tell stories about bad Germans in Poland and bad Poles in Germany laughing at stereotypes, rumours and prejudice which has been produced over post-war years. But that is the point to be objective and reserved about people's stories. Probably it would be better to tell what you know and not to talk the people down.
 
Please, also pay attention that you commented "Easter European breeders". The term Eastern Europe might also contain some new European Union member countries! And you would put all that into one sack...  I really got angry as it may apply also to me.
 
Anyway I will use my time to tell the truth as I speak fluent Russian (although I am not Russian myself). There are a lot of wonderfull dog breeders in Russia. You can check [linkhttp://www.saluki.ru]www.saluki.ru[/link] and see one of the best European breeder of saluki, located in Moscow. A lot of rich people in Russian invested money in properties, yachts, trips, jewlerry and some of them in dogs. The result of it that the Russians have become owners of incredibly good dogs, in many cases other Europeans may forget to compete against them, no matter if they come from Poland, Germany or Portugal. Some of the best dogs of some breeds live in Russia and it's irreversible. Even if it's true there are problems with Russian social service, that is not much different form top wealthy countries. Also in the USA there are millionaires and homeless people, which do not get any social service as well.
 
One of top azawakh breeders from Germany is a good friend of mine. She has sold puppies to Moscow and she says it was a very good thing to do. The new owners would "die for their dogs", she says and she didn't mind they were any worse just because of living in Moscow, not in Berlin.
 
There is no reason to desrespect people just because of the place they come from. But hey.... how can you let a guy from a post-communist country tell a guy from a ever-democratic wealthy country all that?
 
I really hope I will not have to continue this matter as I have come here to chat about dogs,
 
 

I agree with Gina completely.  Why must you talk about what wonderful dogs they are?  I usually want to know what they have accomplished, either in the conformation, obedience, or schutzhund ring.
 
Have you spoken with Cambria? [linkhttp://www.cambriadobes.com/index.html]http://www.cambriadobes.com/index.html[/link]
I was on their wait list when Bevo entered my life.  I have met a few of their dogs, both in the conformation ring & the obedience ring.  These dogs were very nice physical specimens & had very stable temperments.