Dog Community

new member... needs advise

Posted : 7/15/2009 10:20:41 PM

Hello, I'm a new member and I'm looking for some advise. First let me give you some background on myself. I'll be a senior at Purdue University this fall but will be doing a super senior year too. My major is Animal Science. My future plans are to apply to Purdue's vet school and grad school this coming fall. My home is a 60 acre farm in southeastern Indiana between Cincinnati, OH and Indianapolis, IN. I raise and show pure bred poultry. The poultry I raise include several breeds of bantam chickens, Maran chickens, Call ducks, Rouen ducks, Ebdem geese, guineas, and two varieties of turkeys. I've been raising and showing my poultry for ten years. I also have 6 pygmy mix bred goats, 10 barn cats, one beagle and one pomapoo dog. The beagle lives outside in a large lot and the pomapoo lives inside of course. The goats live in a large lot with a large barn. My geese live in the barn lot with the goats. Some of my Rouen ducks live in the barn lot with my goats and geese. The rest of the ducks live in several lots with houses. Since I show my guineas they are kept in lots so they can be caught easily. My chickens and turkeys are also kept in lots or cages because I show them.

Over the years I've had raccoons, opossums, hawks, weasels, and neighbors dogs kill my poultry. We've learned to build our pens and houses like fortresses but sometimes we miss a lose board or hole etc. This spring we had 3 fox families move into our woods and my neighbors old barn. We have never dealt with foxes before. My neighbors barn is about 300-400 yards behind my barn with my goats, geese, and Rouens. There is a creek bed that runs from my neighbors barn to my barn. The fox were using this creek bed to hunt my Rouens. We had to pen my Rouens up so they wouldn't get killed. The fox never bothered my goats or my geese. The Rouens were killed with the geese and goats in the lot with them. My father used to trap fur bearers when he was in high school so he bought some traps but they never caught any fox. Currently the foxes have moved to different dens away from my farm but I'm sure they will come back in the spring to raise their pups.

I'm considering getting a a livestock guardian dog to help stop the fox from killing any more of my poultry. I've read a few articles about different livestock guardian dogs but would love some advise from people who actually own them. I am looking for breed suggestions, training advise, etc. I am a person who doesn't like getting a new animal/pet with no background on them. I consider myself a very responsible pet owner and want to be well informed before I purchase any livestock guardian dog.

I have also read the discussion on this forum from another person who was wanting advise on getting a livestock guardian dog for poultry. The advise about getting geese, turkeys, and guineas to protect chickens and ducks is not completely accurate. I have had guineas killed by raccoons, for example one roosted outside of its house one night because my brother was taking care of my poultry and didn't realize it was still out. My Rouens were killed by the fox when my geese were with them. Turkeys are not very brave or aggressive especially the hens.

Thank you very much for any advise you can give.

rwbeagles

Posted : 7/15/2009 11:31:12 PM

Hello to you, and welcome to the forum. I can suggest that, if she doesn't see this and stop by, you consider PM'ing member "brookcove" she runs a farm and has LGD's....Maremma's I believe. She'd likely be able to give a lot of advice.

I also think we might even have a few people here with fowl of one type and another...not sure anyone breeds for show tho, that is quite interesting.

I am a Silkie fan, always wanted one for a pet...but suburbia does have it's rules, lol. Smile

stardog85

Posted : 7/15/2009 11:40:49 PM

Welcome from a fellow Purdue grad! :) (also in AnSci!) I'm not up on LGDs, but I was wondering, have you checked with professors in poultry? I bet they'd be happy to offer advice, same with people in the extension service!

mrv

Posted : 7/16/2009 7:06:13 AM

I am wondering do you have a some what atypical situation in which the dog needs to be non human aggressive over all? I am thinking the livestock is relatively close the house and there are folks coming and going with some regularity. I am thinking this if you mentor 4 H kids etc. Brookecove is definately the individual best able to guide you. An acquantiance (used to herd at her place) uses two different breeds. Closer to the house is the pyr, the wide open spaces at greater distance from the farm activity anotolians. The pyr was a bit less reactive but still had to be kenneled when folks were visiting. The anotolian, although civil in her presence, was not a beast to be approached alone.

tashakota

Posted : 7/16/2009 8:27:53 AM

What about a pair of Llama's or Alpaca's? :) They will guard and scare off any predators. Same with, was it mules or donkeys? I forget. Not much other help on a LGD but I wish you luck!

I live in B-town, so am a "local".

jndoerfl@purdue.edu

Posted : 7/16/2009 11:23:37 AM

Yes, I'm looking for a breed that is not human aggressive overall. I do have 4-H kids and other poultry people who come to visit my farm pretty regularly. I also have a neice that is 9 months old who stays with my mom while my brother and sister in-law work. I also want a breed that is not dog aggressive either because of my two other dogs. Even though the lot the beagle lives in is huge we still let him out from time to time. The pomapoo is strictly an inside dog and gets very upset by other dogs. Any LGD I would get would stay outside and most likely live in the barn lot with my goats, ducks, and geese but would need to be familar with the chickens, guineas, and turkeys. All of my poultry are kept close to the house because of predators. The barn is only about 30 feet from the house. I would definetly provide a kennel or lead inside the barn lot so the dog could be secured when visitors came over. Thanks for the advise!

Jean Doerflein

Duck Creek Poultry Place

Mickey dog

Posted : 7/20/2009 9:17:55 PM

Hi I'm Michelle. Recently we have lost most of our livestock to dogs. We got a Great Pyrenees. SInce then We have not lost any of our animals.The are bred to guard livestock. Or you can try the Belgian Shepherd dog. They are also friendly.Or you can look into the Entlebucher.

mrv

Posted : 7/21/2009 2:30:44 PM

Belgian shepherds are NOT livestock guardians. They are herding dogs and generally used as all purpose dogs. They have high energy, high intellect and need life long socialization. They are not particularly suited to live stock guarding, especially when prey drive is strong. Dont get me wrong, I love belgians, have two. But they are not a good fit for this situation.

brookcove

Posted : 7/22/2009 10:31:11 AM

My dogs guard and tend everything in their area. My oldest girl watches over the ducks when they set, and the hatchlings are her special care. They also guard against winged predators, though not all dogs will do this.

It's best to start with a puppy if you want the dog to guard "non-standard" livestock like poultry, and also be people-social. However, understand that training a puppy is just like training ANY puppy. There will be mistakes and you have to guide the puppy so that it understands what is correct, and what is not.

Probably you either want a Maremma, or an Akbash or Kuvasz, if your goal is a family-friendly dog who is also going to be very stock-attentive. You can socialize a Pyr until it's quite friendly with people, but since American Pyrs have sort of a sketchy tending instinct, you can lose that. Again, you really do have to start with a puppy.

There's a lady up north who breeds a line of dogs that are specifically for the small farm. She combines Spanish Tatras with a couple of other breeds (maremma is one of them). I'm seriously considering one of these for my next puppy.