Belgian Laekenois or other suggestions...

    • Gold Top Dog

    Belgian Laekenois or other suggestions...

    Anyone ever met/had one?  I've always liked the Belgian shepherds (mals in particular, although I think they're a little too much dog for me).  I've been looking into different breeds I could get in a couple years when I can focus more seriously on my dogs (right now, with college, two is enough for me, and I'm more "playing" with schutzhund than really being serious with it).  I've really been liking the Beauceron and of course the Dobes, but I've always been intrigued by the laekenois, mainly I guess because I've never actually seen one in person. 

    So, I'm really curious about what they are like.  I'm assuming they're pretty much like the other Belgians, but I know they have differences between the types besides their looks.  Are they as intense as mals are?  I'm looking for a more melow dog, but one that definitely has the drive for schutzhund work.  What is their coat like?  Is it like a poodle-ish coat or more like a terrier-type (Westie, Cairn, etc.) coat?

    I'd also be interested in any other breeds you guys might suggest for schutzhund work.  I'm not looking for a strict schutzhund dog, but also one I could do other things with (agility, maybe conformation depending on breed).  We go hiking and rock climbing a lot, so the dog would be running around outside with us quite often.  Would have to get along with two other dogs (although that's more of a personality thing, I guess).

    What are your thoughts on Dobes and Beauceron, too, since I'm already considering them.  I have owned a Dobe before, but he was a pretty badly bred one (BYB).  I loved him so much, but I want to know what to expect from a better bred dog.     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Laekens are the "closest" to the original belgians.  They are fewer in overall registry of all the varieties in both the US and Europe.  An import a friend of mine owns ,from Portugal, is a BIG bitch (over 27).  Coats come in fairly late in adulthood and require handstripping.  There are some temperment issues as there can be with all belgians.  The UKC folk are the most active with the Laekens (UBSDA) and there is a variety organization in and of itself.  The majority of the laekens in the US are NOT doing protection sport of any type.  Most working as in protection based sports etc Laekens would be in Europe.  As with most belgians it depends on the lines more than anything else.  Same health problems although missing teeth seems a bit prevelent here in the US.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Workingdoglover
    So, I'm really curious about what they are like.  I'm assuming they're pretty much like the other Belgians, but I know they have differences between the types besides their looks.  Are they as intense as mals are?  I'm looking for a more melow dog, but one that definitely has the drive for schutzhund work.  What is their coat like?  Is it like a poodle-ish coat or more like a terrier-type (Westie, Cairn, etc.) coat?

     The Belgian breeds are actually supposed to be one breed with four varieties, AKC is the only regsitry which does not recognize them as such. Some of the "working line Mals" can be rather differentm, since they are not being bred to be good Belgians but to be outstanding sport dogs. Their coat is very wash-n-wear, not at all like a Poodle more like a broken coated JRT. Some never get a lot of hair and just have a scruffy look to their muzzles, legs and tail and some have a lot of thick, wirey hair. They are hand stripped and from what their owners tell me, don't really shed otherwise. As was already mentioned - temperament issues are a problem in all varieties of Belgians, most especially reactive or nervey temperaments. Like any other breed, you'll want to research lines and breeders but it may be difficult to find a litter in the US that is what you want. This is a good site for some basic info and has contact info, if you want to talk to someone about Laekens: http://www.redtaildesign.com/ulu/framewhy.html  I think any of the Belgian breeds could work for you, if you decide to go in that direction.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I loved my Malinois and prefer them the most. Although I think the Beauceron is a neat breed too. There was a breeding her was getting out of it, which had a few dogs available and I almost went for one but really don't have the time just yet to do the ring sport stuff like I want. I also tototally love Dutch Shepherds, might be a good consideration for you. I still can't decide myself (another Belgian or a Dutchie), I've plenty time to decide and hopefull will be ready when the time comes.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Thanks for all the information everyone.  I'm still a couple years away, probably, but I want to be prepared and on the look-out for good breeders that might be close to my area.  I've definitely considered Dutchies as well, but wow, they seem almost as wired as Mals... 

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    It isn't real likely that you'll find a Laeken in your area that fits what you are looking for. You would do well to contact the person on the site I sent you, as she could direct you to who might be closest but there are not many Laeken breeders in the US at all.

    • Gold Top Dog

     I no, I know it would be difficult to find a Leaken anywhere.  I was more talking about the other possible breeds I'm looking into.  I'd really like to have a good mentor that would be near me, which is why I'd like to have a breeder somewhat close by, but it isn't a must.  :)

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    That criteria will also make it difficult to find Beaucerons as well.  I really dont know about Dutchies.  I can tell you that malinois are far more reactive.  Very, very, very, subtle  even unconscious movements on your part can cause a reaction from a Malinois.  You need to be very precise and patient (boy am I learning this) in both your training steps and your signals/commands once learned.  I think a good description that might make sense is the difference between power steering in a large luxury American luxury car of the 70-80s  compared to rack and pinion steering in a European car with racing heritage.  The over steering is obvious if you go from the large car with power steering to the sports car.

    • Gold Top Dog

    mrv

    That criteria will also make it difficult to find Beaucerons as well.  I really dont know about Dutchies.  I can tell you that malinois are far more reactive.  Very, very, very, subtle  even unconscious movements on your part can cause a reaction from a Malinois.  You need to be very precise and patient (boy am I learning this) in both your training steps and your signals/commands once learned.

     

     What do you mean by subtle movements causing a "reaction"?

    • Gold Top Dog

    I find that I can make far more mistakes (changes in the "standardness";) in my signals with my terv than with my malinios.  Her position in heel is very much the result of where my shoulder is.   Shifting my weight from one leg to another while standing gets a "ready" reaction in anticipation of movement or command.  Subtle changes in the position, speed or location of a hand signal can influence the quality of her response.   

    Dont get me wrong, I do not see this as detriment in her.  Rather a challenge to me; requiring substantial effort on my part to be more skillful.  It is not so much that she is unforgiving of my errors, rather that she is so in tune that my timing messes up the end product.  And I have yet to find a way to slow down her mind or her body (short of exhaustion).  It is ok,  in one of Shelia Booth's books (Purely Positive) she wrote something to the effect "the teacher you need arrives at just the right time in your life".  She was speaking of her Malinois.  I understand now what she meant on a whole 'nuther level.