Livestock guardian breed question

 It depends on the type of breed.  Most LGDs are "tending" dogs - they not only chase off threats in the form of predators, they also manipulate the environment and the flock for the perceived good of the flock.  Chasing off deer falls under the latter category.  They'd also chase off strange sheep or at least keep them apart for a while, depending on how strange they are (ie, if they don't play by the rules somehow).  This betters the flock as they then don't have to compete with random intruders for forage and water.

I prefer this type of dog because they are also the kind that do things like lead the flock to better grazing by themselves, and also keep lambs warm and dry during difficult births.

I socialize my dogs now.  I've found that it doesn't harm their guarding or tending ability as long as they know their place is with the flock.  I'm a little outside mainstream with this view but I'm not absolutely alone.   And I've placed half a dozen dogs raised in this way in very happy, satisfied homes.  This last time I brought my rescue Maremma in the house for about three weeks and only walked her on a leash to the flock a couple times a day to remind her of her job.  If it were possible to "break" a good LGD of guarding by being kind and teaching them to respect and enjoy human company, I'd turn out nothing but failures at this.

However, someone with a team of range LGDs has different goals for them than I do.  That's why there's such a marvelous range of LGDs out there all doing what seems like essentially the same job. 

What a neat sounding adventure.  I had a friend who went out west and got to help on one of those big spreads, with her dog.  And our Gus came from another place like that in CO.  I guess those people who say there's not much call for dogs that work with flocks, might be looking in the wrong place!   

Weird.. I would have thought that the Akbash would have left the deer alone, not to chase them??  I know of LGB running off or even killing coyotes, stray dogs and other critters... but never an animal that similar to the type that they protect??  Sorry that I don't have greater insight for ya.. I'm just as surprised as you..

You probably posted before you saw Becca's reply.  Her conclusion makes perfect sense to me and it's so interesting that the different LGBs work in different ways with the same goal. 

Becca, I think it's great that you do socialize your LGBs.  My friend Tom can show you some pretty nasty scars from his dogs when they were being vaccinated!  He found a goat with his horns stuck in a fence (this was shortly after they got their first LGB dogs) and when he got out to free the goat, one of the dogs went for him (never bit him) barking ferociously and lunging, meanwhile the other dog moved the flock away from the danger.  His wife saw this from the truck and she said she knew that the dogs would serve their purpose.  I am fascinated by these dogs and really appreciate your responding.  Tom also said they lost a lot of lambs to eagles this past Spring because they didn't time the lambing right and the eagles were still in the area.  The dogs are much more effective against the coyotes than the eagles for the obvious reasons.

 Just agreeing with Becca here LOL. 

brookcove

I prefer this type of dog because they are also the kind that do things like lead the flock to better grazing by themselves, and also keep lambs warm and dry during difficult births.

Tully does that, right?  I seem to remember a photograph...

brookcove

If it were possible to "break" a good LGD of guarding by being kind and teaching them to respect and enjoy human company, I'd turn out nothing but failures at this.

It would also make impossible the idea of LGDs as estate dogs, Maremmas are pretty widely used for that in Italy, and they learn to live with their humans and accept visitors into the house without erasing their effectiveness at chasing off a REAL threat.  That Italian boy I've shown you pictures of is appropriately protective, but the sweetest massive cuddle bug you've ever met, too.  I think he'd have been fantastic with sheep if that had been his destiny.  

Having said that....there are several breeds of LGD I wouldn't have in the house, but would have if I had sheep.  (Komondors and Bergamascos come to mind.)  So agreed, there is a range.

Yeah, Komondorak are just . . .scary.  I know people who are thrilled with theirs because they live in isolated areas with heaavy predator pressure and even some human predation.

The vast majority of LGD behavior is NOT aggressive.  They are, in fact, supposed to have a lot of bite inhibition and show a lot of restraint and assessment before rushing to join battle.   Pyrs are often too quick to jump, which is why I don't like them as much.  Coyotes who have been exposed to Pyrs or dogs with similar quick-draw reflexes, quickly learn that they can neutralize them by sending groups to lure away the dogs, and then having a group circle and snag the prey.

Every dog I've had here shows stock attentiveness at an early age.  For some reason it's usually assigned to the youngest dog - possibly because they are less experienced at guarding so these less vital roles are given to them.  Tully sometimes even will keep the mother away from a lamb he's claimed!!  He tried this, after the arrival of the Girlz, and Min objected strenuously.  They had several knock down drag outs on this issue.  I expect Min will take over this duty for a while, this year, as she's younger than Tully I think.

My dogs drive off winged predators also.  We have problems with buzzards picking at newborn or sluggish lambs but I've never had a problem myself.  I  know my neighbor has actually lost slow starting calves to buzzards.  Cattle can mash a dog but they don't know what to do when flocks of them descend on a calf.  He calves next to us now as much as possible because my dogs run off the buzzards in the adjoining pasture also.

brookcove

I  know my neighbor has actually lost slow starting calves to buzzards.

Ok, that's just scary. 

brookcove

My dogs drive off winged predators also.

brookcove

He calves next to us now as much as possible because my dogs run off the buzzards in the adjoining pasture also.

LOl Bugsy HATES buzzards and crows.  A while back a buzzard was on our drive when we came home from our walk (never figured out why) and B just about got it he he he

Perhaps your neighbor wants to borrow B - er forget it he do after the cows too