Registries definition of breed standard is controversial

Just a point of fact.  The registry doesn't define the standard.  It is defined and maintained by the national breed club for the American registry you are talking about.

Most breed standards are really close between countries.  But what wins here may not win there, and vice versa.  Different interpretations of the standard.  But standards are written by breed clubs, not the AKC....  I don't know much about schnauzers but I do know whites aren't allowed here, I don't know why.  There's always going to be regional differences within a breed.

I guess my breed is the exception to the "close agreement" principle.  In the AKC (one US registry) the two dog currently in my home are different breeds.  Any where else in the world they are varieties of the same breed based on coat and are registered as they fall.  So if you have the wrong coat length or the wrong coat color (in the long coat dogs) you are ineligible for conformation competition.  I just loved it when a black dog became the first CT (Champion Tracker) in the breed and was featured on the cover of the Terv magazine.  BTW  the breed information on this website is incorrect, there are four types of belgian shepherds (not three)

Same thing happens with German Shepherds.  People showing Sieger shows can get pretty snarky about AKC German Shepherds and vice versa.  Also, many people have told me that the UKC is the best venue b/c they make more room for working-style dogs.  My own dog is from working lines and is just shy of a UKC grand champion title.  I sincerely doubt she ever would've got points in the AKC ring.  There are pretty noticeable differences:

AKC show

west German show

Having raised Mini Schnauzers for several years now, AND having raised white (and yes, I live in Canada!), I'm very familiar with this debate. I am a person who believes that a breed's standard should come from its country of origin, not an arbitrary ideal made up from one clique (aka a closeminded group of individuals).  The CKC and AKC both don't allow white Mini Schnauzers to be shown, when most of the other countries in the world recognize it as being as accepted as any other.

The anti-white breeders claim that the white Mini was a result of crossbreeding (hmm, weren't ALL purebred dogs a result of crossbreeding at one point or another in the past?), and white Mini's have certainly been around for quite a long time. The b/s Mini Schnauzer, which is a relatively popular color, was not always recognized. It gained recognition many years after the breed had been created. But now that it's been created, the people who have them would never acknowledge that at one point they would have been considered in the exact same position as the white is now.

I just find it funny for two countries (albeit large countries) to make up such comments as they are, so in effect they are calling the rest of the world that recognizes white Mini's "puppy mills" who have "mix bred" their dogs to make "rare colors". I'm sure they are making great fools of themselves for doing so, in the eyes of everybody else. I wouldn't think that populations in the millions are too fond of certain clubs making such erroneous statements.

We don't have any white Mini's at the moment (although we have several that carry and do produce white), our last male grew oversize so we didn't end up keeping him for our breeding programme. But we have raised many whites, and have even shipped two white bitches overseas, where one is now an International champion (and her daughters are doing very well also), and the other is I believe a champion in one or two countries, the last time that I heard.

The White Mini is as purebred as any other. They are fully registerable, are healthy, have the same conformation and personality, they are Mini through and through. Tis a shame some people are blind to that.

I see the contraversy all the time, because we've been immersed in it simply by breeding white Mini's. There ARE many breeders out there striving to make the white recognized in Canada and the US, but until the clubs get people who are a little less biased, they will never change the standards to allow it. You wouldn't believe the sheer lies that some people will spread (and by that I mean by "respected" breeders!) simply because you do something that is different than what they do.

Liesje, to me that is more of an interpretation difference rather than an actual standard difference.  If you look at the breed standards, they're written about the same, but what wins isn't always what wins in another place.  What I got from the OP is that certain things actually written in the standard are different- ie white being allowed in schnauzers some places but not here or blue eyed dalmatians being allowed here but not the FCI. 

I hate to say it, but we Americans have ruined several breeds, by imposing what we want to see in the breed into the breeding programs, not necessarily what was meant by the parent organization that defined the breed.  Rotts and German Shepherds are just 2 of many breeds ruined by us.  The "American" Shepherd is so grossly angulated that what is winning in Conformation typically would never pass the European Working competitions.  Their body structure just can't handle it.  Not to say there aren't those that have.......  Just stating in general.  The Rotts are bred so huge now, that they are not the true working bred that they should be.  It is so sad.  I compete in Conformation, not with Shepherds or Rotts, but it just tears my heart out to see these Shepherds walking on their hocks, they don't walk on their feet anymore!  Their backs are so sloped, it us just terrible.  Watch a true DDR Shepherd walk and watch an "American" Shepherd walk, they are totally different.

Most notable difference in Beagles is the size....up to 16" in all FCI countries, and no size divisions like there are here in the USA (under 13", and over 13" but under 15";). Many breeders send their oversized hounds overseas...and importing is always done carefully here because of the tendency to bring in oversize along with it.

So on the whole the breed tends to be bigger elsewhere. There are also issues with body length/back length...and some mention of dilutes elsewhere while here they are not mentioned specifically.

firedogk9

I hate to say it, but we Americans have ruined several breeds, by imposing what we want to see in the breed into the breeding programs, not necessarily what was meant by the parent organization that defined the breed.  Rotts and German Shepherds are just 2 of many breeds ruined by us.  The "American" Shepherd is so grossly angulated that what is winning in Conformation typically would never pass the European Working competitions.  Their body structure just can't handle it.  Not to say there aren't those that have.......  Just stating in general.  The Rotts are bred so huge now, that they are not the true working bred that they should be.  It is so sad.  I compete in Conformation, not with Shepherds or Rotts, but it just tears my heart out to see these Shepherds walking on their hocks, they don't walk on their feet anymore!  Their backs are so sloped, it us just terrible.  Watch a true DDR Shepherd walk and watch an "American" Shepherd walk, they are totally different.

As much as I try to love all sheps the same, I'm inclined to agree (I do like their fronts though and the way they stack with their heads up tall).  However, some of the west German ones now have such awkwardly roached backs, they are painful to watch as well!!  Overall, I prefer the structure of the west and east German working lines - level or gently sloping backs, nice hips and rear, smaller dogs overall. 

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For two of the three breeds I'm intrested in/involved in, the country of origin standard isn't widely used! (This would be Collies- in the UK roughs and smooths are separate breeds, smaller, and have a quite different breed standard and look to them- and not any improvement on soundness or eye testing- and in Germany, there are WEIRD rules about German Spitz and their colors.)

 Plus, you can also get stuff like the Keeshond issue. In Germany, Keeshonds are classified as Wolfspitz, one of the varieties of Japanese Spitz under FCI. In France, the varieties of Spitz are allowed to be interbred. So you could breed a Keeshond to a Pom and show it as a German Spitz Mittel or Klein or Gross, depending on how big it ended up and what color! But at the same time, the gene pool of Mittels and Kleins is VERY small in some places- to not allow crossbreeding ever, at all, could have a seriously negative impact on the breed. (That said? I'm hoping that AKC will get their head out of their butt regarding the GS and recognize the Mittelspitz, Kleinspitz, and Grossespitz separately.)

 Just throwing another monkeywrench into the works.