A question about Shepherds..

I guess I'm a bit confused.... do you want a protection dog?  Like an actual protection trained dog or just a dog of those kinds of breeds?  Protection training is a bit much for what most average people want.
 
That said, I grew up with a GSDx that was a rescue.  He was a wonderful dog with a sound temperament.  He was great around kids, and was a good watch dog.  He did have hip dysplasia, though.  He lived a fairly long life- we had to put him down when he was twelve.  So I think it's entirely possible to get a great GSD or cross from a shelter to be a companion dog. 

I think it depends on one thing- your ability to recognize a problem and act on it.

Firstly, do you have the signs to recognize a problem when you have it? I'm not talking about in the shelter, necessarily, but once the dog settles in at home, will you recognize small signs of a larger problem BEFORE someone gets hurt? Then, more importantly, will you act on those signs when it's still a 'little problem' and not wait until you have a full-blown issue? If you can do that? I think you've got a good chance of success with any shelter dog, regardless of breed.

Secondly, if you aren't experienced with dogs but still want a breed known to be tough or with a reputation for temperament problems? Talk to breed rescue, even if you're not dead-set on a purebred. They're experienced at evaluating the breed and can help you find a suitable 'first dog of X breed' or mix of their breed.  For folks who approach me about breeds with temperament problems common to the breed (Akitas, Chows, Pibbles, GSDs to some extent but not so much)- I actually send them to breed rescue, rather than a municipal shelter as much as possible.

Heck, even if you don't adopt from them, they and your local breed club are your best LOCAL resources for learning about a breed without actually owning one. Another good one is the chattiest breed mailing list you can find. In Corgis, for example, you want Corgi-L, not ShowPem or Showcardi- you want the list with the pet owners on it, not the show breeders. You'll hear a LOT of trivia about what it's like to live with the dogs day to day, and that's all useful info to take back when you go to the shelter to look at a dog. The more research you can do, the more dogs of a given breed (or mixes of that breed) you can meet in order to learn what they are like in a normal environment, the better a chance, in general, you have of figuring out whether or not that dog in the shelter is calm because he's a calm dog, or calm because he's completely shut down and is going to be a sensitive but hyper dog once he settles in at home.


Lastly, although I think a GSD can be a great dog, I don't think expecting one to be good with kids AND a great family protector is necessarily a good idea. I find that most people that want a protective dog live in a fairly high state of anxiety in general. This isn't good for a shepherd. "What's got mom upset? Should I bet upset? If I bite it, will it go away and stop scaring her?" Sheppies are sensitive to that kind of thing and you need a lot of confidence so that they understand that just because YOU are anxious, does NOT mean they are alloewd to act on it. Expecting a dog to discriminate between 'I'm startled" and "this situation is terrifying" isn't fair to the dog, and I wouldn't expect even the best bred shepherd to necessarily do well under those circumstances. (It's one of the reasons that while shepherds make very GOOD guide and mobility dogs, they can be kind of difficult as psychiatric service dogs- they're WAY too sensitive to emotions.) Almost ANY dog will, in a pinch, bark and threaten to protect you, and be a good visual deterrant. You might look into Leonburgers, if you like giant dogs, but also Eurasiers in the medium size range, as well as some chow mixes. (Chow x lab and chow x golden are consistantly some of my VERY favorite mixes in the shelters I visit- they're almost all nice, sweet, goofy dogs, and if you look for a solid black one, they can look pretty intimidating.) If you don't mind a fairly energetic but mild-mannered dog? Check out smooth collies- tricolor smooth males, for some reason, intimidate people, especially if they have pretty minimal white. I have neighbors who cross the street when they see Mal and I coming. (And no, Mal doesn't jump or anything like that- he's walking nicely on a loose leash and won't even sniff them! He's just a 26" tall mostly black dog with 'doberman' markings and a lot of folks have never heard of a smooth collie.) Would he actually bite someone to protect me? Probably not. But he sure as hell would bark and raise a ruckus. (My corgi, on the other hand, WOULD bite someone, probably quite badly. He's a MUCH more confident dog than Malcolm is, and he's older and more experienced. Mal is still a puppy who loves everyone, pretty much.)


Hope that's helpful!
Cait

I've heard mixed opinions of getting a GSD or other "aggressive/guard" shepherds at shelters.

Can you elaborate?  She shelter advertises the Shepherd as being aggressive and guardy?  If so, I think that shelter is not doing their job.  They should only have pets available that have been rehabilitated of aggressive and/or guarding behaviors.

In my opinion, GSDs make very poor "guard dogs" unless you pay the tens of thousands it costs to get one that has been properly bred and professionally trained in personal protection.  GSDs are indoor velcro dogs and do very, very poorly being locked outside, away from the family, in order to "guard" the property.  If you want a companion dog to actually protect your children, you will not want a shelter dog, you will need to find a reputable breeding kennel that properly trains and socializes family protection dogs and works with you to integrate the dog into your household.  Allowing ANY breed of dog to develop guarding tendencies is a recipe for disaster.

If you want a better bet on temperment, then choose breed rescue orgainzations.  Those dogs that have been in skilled foster homes are more a "known" entity compared to shelters that do not use foster homes.

Though if you're just wanting a dog to be a deterrent or a watch dog then you'd probably not want a protection trained dog.  I guess we need to know if you want a protection dog or a watch dog or what.  Our shepherd was a good family dog and he'd bark at strangers serving well as a watch dog.  He was also pretty big and I can't imagine someone trying to pull anything with him around.  But he wasn't trained in bite work or anything like that.  If someone tried anything, I have no idea what he would have done. 

Go with breed rescue. But if you just want a dog that will bark when strangers come around, go to the shelter, close your eyes, and point at a cage, then pick the one that strikes your fancy. My Chinese crested lap dog sounds right ferocious when company pulls up, and my Border collies sound like they are going to kill someone. But, they wouldn't, which is good. You don't want a dog that would actually harm someone. For protecting our children from the bad guys we pay the good people at 911 - police, sherriff, etc. []

If you could hear my cogi bark, you would be expecting to see a 100lb. dog not a 20lb. little dog.

In my opinion, GSDs make very poor "guard dogs"

 
 
I have to totally disagree with that statement, I grew up with GSDs, and ever since I was away from home I owned GSDs, my oldest was almost 14 when he had to be put down. I am sorry I trust my life with my Shepherds, true they are velcro dogs, but mine have access to the outside via doggie door, and when they hear something they shoot through that door and make it known that they have arrived.
 
I don't think any dog would benefit from being locked outside all the time, wouldn't you agree?
 
In reference to getting a Shepherd from a shelter, it might not be a good idea when children are involved, as much as I love to rescue, one can not guarantee the outcome of a rescue, in most cases these dogs do not show their true colors until months later........three of the four dogs I have now I wouldn't trust around children, but there are no kids in my house......

I have to totally disagree with that statement, I grew up with GSDs, and ever since I was away from home I owned GSDs, my oldest was almost 14 when he had to be put down. I am sorry I trust my life with my Shepherds, true they are velcro dogs, but mine have access to the outside via doggie door, and when they hear something they shoot through that door and make it known that they have arrived.

Oh, I agree with that.  By "guard" dog I was thinking a dog that is left to guard property, like a junkyard dog or an estate guard dog.  GSDs are bad for that b/c they need to be indoors with the family and their velcro person.  You can get some that are trained to guard, but they cost like $65,000 b/c of all the training that goes into them and having the professional trainer come and show you how to handle the dog.  There are some breeds of dogs that are very good at alerting and are far more independent so they can be out patrolling their grounds for extended periods of time without feeling left out (Canaan dogs come to mind b/c they have defensive tendencies and can be almost wild and independent depending on the lines). 

I think when a lot of people are looking for a dog to "guard" and "protect" their family, they aren't really sure what exactly it is that they want.  Does the OP mean guard the grounds?  Alert bark?  Attack an intruder?  Serve as a visual deterrent?  Attack on command?  It just scares me when people say they are looking for a protection dog but don't mention any training they are planning on doing.  Protection dogs ONLY attack when the handler says to and the handler must ALWAYS be able to call the dog off and the attacker should be able to approach and pet the dog.  Any dog that attacks based on it's own intuition or without instruction from the handler is a scary thought for me.  GSDs make great protection dogs because they are so trainable and loyal and have great courage and drive, but the handler is ALWAYS in control and the GSD breed is exceptional as far as attention to the handler and obedience.  GSDs are not used in protection b/c they are inherently more guardy and aggressive.  Those are behaviors that need to be rehabilitated, not encouraged.

I have both a GSD and Great Pyrenees. I have always loved GSD's and even bred them for awhile. Just lately did we come across the Great Pyrenees. I have to honestly tell you, that if you are looking for a dog to protect you and your children yet be loving and affectionate, then I whole heartedly suggest a Great Pyrenees. My son can lay on my GP and she is always loving to everyone in the house. However when a kid tried to look in our window last week, my GP obliterated my mini blind trying to protect her family from the intruder.  Maybe you could find someone in your area that has a GP and see for yourself. Where are you located?  Good Luck!

rabidlizzy

since I am looking for a companion for myself for when I live all alone, and a protector of my future children,

I got the impression the OP was saying they want a personal protector, not a property guard and not a schutzhund- trained dog, but just a family companion who would protect it's family and discourage interlopers - but one that she could trust 100%. And that's a temperament-bred GSD, in my opinion. That's what I have.

I'm just speaking for myself, but if I were getting a GSD for a companion and to protect my family (children) I would get a pup from a breeder who breeds for temperament and socializes. I just wouldn't take the chance of a rescue or pound dog having a temperament issue that someone may have missed or that may show up later.

I can recommend some excellent breeders if you're interested. PM me if you want.

I'm ALL FOR rescuing dogs and under different circumstances I'd be the first to suggest and recommend it, but for a GSD with children, I wouldn't recommend it. There's a really high chance you'd get a fine dog, especially if you went with a breed rescue, but I'd want those chances to be as high as I could possibly make them.

Just my opinion. :)

Liesje makes some GREAT points! 
 

FourIsCompany

I got the impression the OP was saying they want a personal protector, not a property guard and not a schutzhund- trained dog, but just a family companion who would protect it's family and discourage interlopers - but one that she could trust 100%. And that's a temperament-bred GSD, in my opinion. That's what I have. 

 

Right on.  My GSD serves as a visual deterrence as far as protection and so far it was worked flawlessly.  People are either terrified of her or admire her, and either is fine with me as long as they leave us alone.  If I see someone coming that gives me a bad vibe, I can have the dog heel with her head up and her mouth shut and that does the trick.  She has had no protection training or SchH (and I do see a difference in PP training and Schutzhund).  I considered SchH, but she simply does not have the nerves or the drive, but to other people, she looks like a police dog.  There's really no reason for a PP trained GSD unless the OP is ready for the cost and the training time that would be involved.  I think most dogs protect their families.  My in-laws have a little old cocker and once I was tickling my husband and the cocker lunged and barked at me.  It's just that when the GSD stands at attention, it looks more scary to the offender.  So yeah, all you need is a dog with a sound temperament.  Loyalty, clingy-ness/velcro-ness, family companionship....those already come naturally with the GSD.  Focus on temperament and socialization. 

Because my family owned mutts until mom rescued an English Springer Spaniel from death row, I can't offer guidance in picking any particular dog from a breeder, rescue, or shelter.  However, I will share our experience when DH & I searched for a dog to adopt.

We both wanted to adopt from a shelter or rescue.  First we looked online at a few rescues in the area, but they weren't breed specific and didn't have a dog we both could agree on.  We looked at the pound and found a few GSDs.  2 were a bit older, which we didn't mind, and one was a gorgeous black one taken in for cruelty/abuse.  Well, the 2 older ones snubbed us and the cruelty case was so nervous that he couldn't focus for a second and just kept running circles around us.  Granted we have no kids, yet, but there are lots of kids in our neighborhood.  We decided to keep looking.

We went out of town and looked in a few other shelters, then we came across Peanut.  She was listed as a shepherd mix (we assumed GSD mix) at a humane society.  She was 3 months old, very quiet, laid back, and I loved her eyes, she was very attentive from the start.  We adopted her, and it was the right decision, for us.  She fit into our house immediately, loved playing with the cats, loved being with us, and in time just seemed to protect us as if she knew something wasn't right.  She'd run to the door barking, or onto the patio when she noticed something didn't belong.  Our vet listed her as a Rottweiler mix.  Now, I didn't mind having a protective dog, but did NOT want an aggressive dog and we decided socialization was mandatory.  Once she healed from her spay surgery, about 1 month, we started taking her to the dog park to socialize, then signed up for a basic obedience class. 

As Peanut grew, she really did not resemble a GSD much, and I thought the rotti was coming out in her.  Turns out that she's an Anatolian Shepherd/Rottweiler mix (or the designer dog name: Rottatolian ) .  From what we've read, the Anatolians are livestock guardian dogs that will protect whatever they are raised with; ie: if they are to protect sheep, they must be raised -sleep, eat- with the sheep.  They are independent thinkers, in that they come to know what is normal, what isn't, and are ready to protect their domain, without any formal protection training.  As a matter of fact, the literature, and a few websites, state and reinforce, absolutely NO shutzhund training!  Peanut is exactly this, she love us, her family, she's mellow, friendly toward people that DH & I have accepted (she sees us shake their hands, she's OK with them).  At the same time, she sticks beside us, sits and observes and because she's a stocky 80lbs, people are cautious around her.  Our friends know her, so they're OK.  She loves to lay in front of the patio door and keep watch, if she hears or sees something unusual, she BOLTS onto the patio barking mad.  That's enough of a deterent for anyone who knows better, if they want to try to enter my house, good luck!  The only bad experience I had with her was during her "terrible two's" she decided to patrol the neighborhood, just like a livestock guardian dog will make it's rounds around the herd.  Funny though, every evening when I got home from work, she'd be sitting at my door step waiting for me.  I know she got out because I found the holes under the fence.  Miss Smarty-Pants!

The GSD that a friend rescued (est. 6months old) & we adopted was a nightmare, at first.  We believe that someone got him as a "guard dog" and left him outside to guard the property at all times.  He had no manners, couldn't walk on a leash, didn't know what toys were, and kept wrestling Peanut - sometimes aggressively.  I lost my voice trying to teach him his name.  I fought Draico every night for about 6 months to get him into his crate.  He had no idea how to chew anything, he was nervous inside our house - I think he was lost.  But, I'm glad to say I didn't give up on him, put the time in to train him (clicker and fanny pack FULL of treats) because he's turned out to be a great dog!  His neck wound healed, I house broke him, trained him to walk on a leash, taught him to play wiht toys, he LOVES to fetch and search for his tennis balls.  Poor thing also had a couple of bad cases of Atopy last year, we worked through those issues,too.  I don't think he was fed the best of foods, my guess is Ol' Roy.  I got him on a better kibble (Royal Canin Maxi GSD, now on Canidae), and started feeding home cooked, along with fish 2-3 times a week, and yogurt and fish oil nightly; bathed him with a coal tar shampoo to help the itch.  This dog would lick me to death every night!!

One evening, it was dusk, we were going into a PetsMart, there was a guy beside the door smoking a cigarette.  Well, Draico decided he didn't like something about him and started barking like a mad dog!  The man walked away.  Draico kept barking until we entered the store and I got on my knee and called his name to get him to focus on me.  Once he looked into my eyes, I praised him for looking at me, he was a happy-go-lucky pup; tail wagging and sniffing the store.  Peanut barked loudly a couple of times, and stayed by my side.  Her tail was wagging once we were in the store and I patted her head thanking her.  A young man at the register asked me if I was OK?  I was SO proud! 

Both dogs are velcro dogs inside, but outside - love to run, play fetch, search, walk, swim.  They come when called, know basic commands like sit, stay, heel, etc.  We're continuing advanced obedience.  And they understand 3 languages, I love talking to them as they sit there twisting their heads listening. 

While neither dog is protection trained, they are first and foremost a deterent, and I'm happy with that.  However, if they sense a threat, they will bark aggressively and stand their ground.  Now if anyone tries to get past them at that point, I pity them!  To end, you can get a nice dog at a shelter, but I'd get one no more than 12 months old so that YOU can train it the way you want.  I believe the young ones are much more impressionable and moldable, but be prepared to put in the time to train.  Now, I now people who rescue older dogs and they make good companions, however many cannot be around cats, or children, or other dogs because they spent their lives as the only pet.  Having children, I'd adopt only young dogs from a shelter, even a rescue - JMO.