Sightounds- Ibizans and pharaohs in particular

I have an Italian Greyhound, She's not a small one either, she is a large 13-14 pound "big girl." She is from a breeder but not of show dog quality. Her eyes are too light, she has kinks in her tail and she is really too big for a show dog-- but she is a great pet and compaion--I actually like the bigger ones they are healthier. She was rescued rather late at 4 months old and really did not get proper socialization (something like 2 months in a cage will do that). The most interesting feature is she has eyes that match her gray fur (she is Irish marked). Her beautiful "wimeraner" coloring was what drew me to her.  Sighthounds are wonderful dogs. When I take her anywhere she gathers admirers who just have to say how beautiful she is. Hounds are really not agressive. She is submissive to other dogs (but aloof to big fuzzy dogs), likes to be petted by strangers. They love to cuddle too. On the minus side they are hard to potty train (IG's). I have her litter box trained fairly well, but she still has accidents. (she is under a year old). The  larger sighthounds need a lot of exersise. A small IG needs a lot less, though she can have the "crazies" like a cat. She does not have a delicate stomach. She loves all food and would do the BARF diet well. She loved raw chicken wings. So far she has only turned her nose up at canned tomatoes-- probably too acidic. She likes cats. She likes to play with smaller dogs. I think she is overwhelmed by big dogs. It takes her a while to get used to any other dog. She has a very deep bark and sounds like a larger dog. She talks a lot and will sit in the car (when we're going on a drive) and actually seem to emulate human speech (like scooby-doo). She has to whine and comment on everything. You need to socialise them early and often. They are also not to be trusted off leash or in an unfenced area outside. I didnt know what this ment but it means if she sees a little birdie across the street, she is out of there.They have Absolutly No traffic sense. Once I was at Petsmart and looked down and saw her leash was not in my hand. I had dropped it. I was about to freak out because she was no where to be seen. She hates stores and I thought she raced to the front and ran out the door. I called her name and she trotted right up-- whew! She does not come when called, she comes "if she feels like it." They are quite independent and need a firm and forgiving hand. IG's in particular end up in shelters and rescues because they are hard to (outside) potty train. I don't know about Ibizans, but I believe I have read they are independant as well-- As far as a choice, I dont think you can find a better dog than a hound. I have her and a chihuahua (terrier). If I were to get another dog I would get another IG or a Whippit. Like I said though on the plus side she is the warmest and friendliest dog with a few exceptions that I have ever known. 

Laurelin-
What are you planning on doing with your new dog?   Coursing is so much fun for the dogs.
 
Also, dogwise has several Beezer books.  I don't remember seeing any Beezer owners on this list; they're hard to come by.  Did you know they come in a wire haired variety?  I've only seen one or two of those and that was at a dogshow.  Ed, of course, has the Pharoah's. 
 
Since you have pap's, I would definately get  a puppy.  My basenjis have done very well with paps, but the basenjis are quite a bit smaller than the two breeds you're looking at. 
 
good luck!!!!

Thanks for the info!  I absolutely adore Italian Greyhounds- one of my favorite toy breeds.
 
Technically speaking, the paps are family dogs, one is owned by my sister and the other is the families'.  I'm moving out in the future completely and will be left dogless.  There's no way my mother is going to let me steal one of 'her babies'.  My 'personal dog' is an elderly female sheltie.  (She's still a family dog, I just call her mine because we got her when I was 9) I'd feel guilty taking her as well as she's very old and set in her ways plus she adores the rest of the family and the other dogs.  I just don't think it'd be healthy for her to move when she's 14 or so.  I also feel guilty about getting a new dog, but I wouldn't be replacing her at all.  I've thought a lot about this, and I really do think it is the best for Nikki to keep her with the family she's known her whole life instead of moving her in her last few years.  They all love her just as much as I do.  So this dog wouldn't be around the toys much except for visits and I'd be very careful with that.   I've been around zois at shows and know how prey driven they can be around small dogs.
 
I'm going to miss having dogs, and as much as I love the paps, I really want something larger for my first on my own dog.  like I said, sighthounds have always been favorites of mine, just not really possible for me to own before.  I figure if I can wait a few more years before getting a new one, I can get a larger dog as I'll be in a house, not an apartment.  Besides, the best things in life are worth the wait. 
 
I really want to do coursing with the new dog primarily but I also want to be involved in conformation as I'm really growing to enjoy that as well.  It'd be my first dog to handle on my own.
 
I know there's a wirehaired Ibizan- that's what most of the breeders around me breed.  (Yes, I've been looking at breeders for years too)  I really like the smooths, but the wires are growing on me.  If I go with a closer breeder, I'd most likely be getting a wire. 
 

Here's my favorite wirehaired bitch that I see at a lot of shows.  She does the meet the breed booth at OKC every year. Some of the wires are really fuzzy though. 
 
It seems that beezers are more popular in Oklahoma/Arkansas because the shows around there generally have several- sometimes 5 or 6.  The shows in Texas never have any.
 
The person I know with beezers has two and they both do well with their cats and other animals, but they were raised with them.

I know there's a wirehaired Ibizan- that's what most of the breeders around me breed. (Yes, I've been looking at breeders for years too) I really like the smooths, but the wires are growing on me. If I go with a closer breeder, I'd most likely be getting a wire.

 
That's a common misconception...Beezers will throw any combination of pups.  One of my friends dogs (Pogo) is a wire Ibizan, the litter he sired had 6 pups total; 3 boys, 3 girls, 3 wires, 3 smooths.
 
Size wise Ibizans are a bit larger, males average around 27" at the shoulder, compared to the Pharaoh standard of 24.5".
 
Beezers also have a softer look about them, they just look more cuddly and approachable. 
 
From a personality standpoint Ibizans are the clowns of the prick eared sighthound world.  Everything is funny.  If they can get a laugh from you, they'll keep egging you on.  In general they aren't as serious as Pharaohs are.
 
Pharaohs have a particularly bad habit:  They make noise.  Lots and lots of it.  They can be trained to be somewhat quiet, but they still love the sound of their voices.  They will give voice when on a trail, chasing prey, when an intruder comes around, or whenever something is out of place.  (My friend had one bark for an hour because the neighbor's trashcan had been knocked over and something just didn't look right. She had to go over to the neighbor's yard and right the can!) 
 
Pharaohs have a very serious approach to life, much more prominent in the bitches.  They demand respect from others and will manipulate situations to insure that they get it.  If you have a multiple bitch household already:  Get a male.  If you've got multiple males: Get a bitch.  Pharaohs are dominant dogs-not in an imposing aggressive way, but in a crafty mind-game way.  A pharaoh puppy will quickly find weak spots in other dogs and exploit them-pushing further and further with puppy license each time.  And when puppy license expires...they have already taken over.  They use their wits rather than aggression to take over. 
 
Smarts?  These are the most creative puzzle solvers I've ever been around.  They will teach themselves how to open doors, post lookouts, jump over babygates (Xerxes has a 5foot vertical from a standstill.) 
 
Don't let any experience you've had with Greyhounds fool you into thinking that these dogs (either beezers or pharaohs) are "100 mile an hour couch potatoes."  They are built for endurance.  They can go on a 10 mile hike and be ready to chase a squirrel or a deer.  Then they'll recharge and in 10 minutes they're running around the house.  These dogs are endurance marathoners.  They won't always run when given the opportunity, but they must be afforded the opportunity to run several times a week.
 
Ok I've gone on long enough.  If you have any more questions shoot me a PM.  Despite the negatives to these breeds, there are some incredible positives and I am completely devoted to these guys.

Thanks for all that info, I really appreciate it!  I really think Ibizans are more my thing the more I look at it.  One of my favorite things about them is how quirky and funny they can be.  My friend just told me not to throw out pharaohs as an option, so I was curious as to how different they really are. 

As far as barking goes, I'm no stranger having grown up with herders.  Shelties absolutely love to bark.

I didn't know that wires could throw smooth pups.  The breeders I see around here have almost all wires and maybe one smooth adult.  Would they have smooth pups often?  Coat type really isn't that important to me, though.

I was thinking about talking to the IHCUS but is 2-3 years a bit too early?

A couple of questions though.  How often do you exercise your dogs?  And how tall is your fence?  I know the sighthounds can jump incredibly high.  (especially some borzois I've seen)

Those are the main things I hear over and over from owners that are the most difficult things to overcome.  I'm just curious. 

Also, someone recommended me going to a coursing event if I could, but I'm not sure how to find those...

Laurelin,
 
Please PM me and I'll give you the website for another board that has bunches of pharaoh hound people on it.  Whether you're interested in Beezers or in Pharaohs, they're all good people and the PH forum is the most posted to on the board.  They've got good info and there's a few people from TX on that board that could help you with local show/coursing event info.
 
You could also try infodog.com to find out show and other akc events. 
 
As far as a yard:  I don't have one.  I'm in a 3rd floor condo.  My kids get several miles a day of walking plus a few minutes open off lead running in a park.  Dog parks are a great thing but the girl is a bit unpredictable and bossy-think "play with me or else!" which is followed by "Oh NO you din'nt!"  So we don't go anymore.
 
Another thing in particular with sighthounds:  They make up their minds about people and the don't like to be touched by strangers-you've got to socialize the heck out of them as pups-encourage people to touch them.  Always under the chin though, never on top of the head.
 
Both pharaohs and beezers are independent and don't fall for the "I am master you are dog" attitude.  They want to be the junior partner and will follow greatfully the direction you give them, as long as that direction allows them to make a judgement or a decision. 
 
And yes, they can jump.  The general accepted fence height for them is about 6 feet.  And then you'll see them bouncing as if they were on a pogo stick, trying to see what's on the other side.

I know there's a wirehaired Ibizan- that's what most of the breeders around me breed.

 
Lucky you!!!  Most of the ones I know of are smooth.  I love the wire coat. 
 
akc coursing:
[linkhttp://www.akc.org/events/lure_coursing/index.cfm]http://www.akc.org/events/lure_coursing/index.cfm[/link]
 
asfa coursing
[linkhttp://www.asfa.org/]http://www.asfa.org/[/link]
 
And I'd say it's never too early to start talking to breeders.
 
(Personally I just LOVE the Cirneco's.  They can be seen on the ASFA website.)
 
If you decide you want to attempt agility with your hound, let me know.  I'm on  a great sighthound agility list!

I was thinking about talking to the IHCUS but is 2-3 years a bit too early?

Persistence is key!  I've adored Pharaohs for almost three years now, and no one really wanted to talk to me - "Call me when you want a puppy."  My main goal has been to find a mentor, attend activities, spend time with the breed.  I've loved sighthounds forever, including Afghans and Saluki, but PH are an ideal fir for me (at least, from the research I have done this far.)  I've tried to talk to anyone who will listen, and ask LOTS of questions.. mainly about the negatives of the breed.  There were times I felt like giving up, because it seemed impossible--trying to find someone who would take my interest seriously.

I'm proud to report that all of this effort has finally resulted in a big step forward:  this weekend, I am going to a PH breeder's home to meet her crew! []  She has been extremely kind and helpful, and I am excited as a little kid at Christmas.  It's time to put my "long distance love affair" to the test.  If you can find someone to mentor you and immerse you in the breed, it will be a great help!  Good luck, I know it is frustrating at times, but to reiterate what I said about:  persistence, persistence, persistence.

I've also been looking at the silken windhunds. I think the wire-haireds are very cute. 

ORIGINAL: Dezdura

I've also been looking at the silken windhunds. I think the wire-haireds are very cute. 

 
There is a great yahoo group for the swhs.

The silkens are a TON of fun. Mal's best bud at the dog park, though, is a beezer pup- about 2 months older than him. She's SUCH a clown.

I want a silken someday, though. They're lovely, sweet little dogs.