Rat Terriers?

 Are you in a position to add dog #2? From all your past postings, I'd think no. But what do I know.

In her younger years she lived on a farm with the Future In Laws and used to be all around horses, in the barn, riding trails. There are pictures of her grabbing horses' tails and going 'skiing' behind them LOL.

She CAN be snotty with other dogs, but within reason, and mostly with other females. Her and Pirate got along from the very first day we adopted him. When they got doodle-in-law she didn't have a problem with him, either. Wendy will bounce around and get in her face and she's not afraid to snipe at her, though! I wouldn't say she's super-bonded to anyone. Obviously she loves Future-MIL, but if she's not available she'll come to me for a snuggle.

She is NOT trustworthy with little kids, at all. I don't know how much of this is due to the Future in-laws, but most terriers I know are not super with the little ones. Also, the barking is enough to make me want to shove sharp objects in my ears, but according to Future in-laws she wasn't always that way and has gotten worse with age.

She does get really cold easily, and usually needs a sweater or something if it's really cold out.

tiffy, right now I'm living with my parents and working to save up money. I have enough in savings to take care of Misha and to get by with things that I need. I had been away at college, then moved to MN, which made Misha's situation a bit less than ideal. I have had problems with the way my parents take care of Misha, and I am in no way attempting to replace him or push him off, but if I go to a grad school where he couldn't go (in, say, Denver) or where he wouldn't be comfortable (New York City), then he has a place to stay here with my parents in a secure fenced-in yard and guaranteed vet care. I know that I have to consider my situation as well, and what is best for me, Misha and HP, but I am trying to think about the future situation and what will be best for all concerned. Is there a particular concern you have, or is it just my general upset at how Misha has been kept in the past?

Meg, barking is a big concern of mine, too, since I can't stand yappy dogs, and too much barking isn't really suitable for apartment life. And good point about little kids! The Rat Terrier I know is pretty chilled out (activity-wise), but he has a national forest to run around and get tired in. I appreciate the experience with the breed. 

 Misha.

tiffy, if you won't explain your concern with more than a few words, I can't really understand it. What about Misha concerns you? When he was escaping it was because there was no fence and I wasn't here to enforce leash walking, so my parents just let him out with an invisible fence, which he would run through. Now our yard is fenced and we have access to it from the back deck, and Misha has spent most of his summer days in the cool house, not outside. Misha spends nights outside when the weather is cooler and it is more comfortable for him -- not when it's freezing, snowing, sleeting, raining, etc. I have taken him to the vet to address weight loss and it is being monitored, as it wasn't as extreme as I had previously thought (I thought he'd gone from 83 lbs to 67 lbs, when he is currently at 78 lbs). I've figured out what food Misha does best on, and am capable of buying him that food (it's Blue, if you're wondering). Misha gets exercise in the form of walks and play time everyday, he's not an active dog, it doesn't take much to tire him out. I do little training things with him everyday before his supper, and I'm going to sign up for another Obedience class and hopefully a Tracking class when they are next available, I missed the deadline this time and can't quite throw $110 into an already well-mannered dog, I have a few interview expenses coming up and only just started back to work. Also, I try to take him somewhere with people once a week, to work on his public manners and anxiety. He rides in the car a few times a week, to get him reacclimated to it, and so that he can be my go anywhere dog (he doesn't get left in the car).

If your concern is how Misha was raised -- I agree that it wasn't/hasn't been ideal, but a lot of things happened that were simply beyond my control. At school, I couldn't have him, otherwise I would have, and the surrounding areas that would allow dogs of his size aren't safe. With this HP, I'm not deciding on whether or not to get him based on factors such as: where I'm going to be (US or Europe), if I can have a dog, how big the dog can be, if Misha would be suited to where I get accepted, if I have time to dedicate to HP's training and socialization along with school, how many hours I'd be away from home per day, what kind of job I had and how much I had to work, etc. So... there are a huge number of factors at work which may never fall into place, and HP may never be. I want to look through and think about this puppy the way I didn't about Misha to make sure that I don't have the stress of worrying if HP is okay where he is and if people are taking care of him, because he'll be with me. Misha really isn't a dog suited to either my lifestyle or my living situation, and I recognize this. He's a good dog, and I love him and make it work, but I also know that his issues (not related to training or socialization, because he was well socialized and had amazing manners as a pup) limit what I can do and what I can do with him. He'd be better suited to a farm or a place with lots of land to roam and protect, I didn't know that was going to be his personality when I got him at 8 weeks -- but I knew it was a possibility. Also, I'd have put Misha in training for things he'd shown interest in if they were offered around here. There are a handful of places that offer obedience training, 2-3 that offer agility, 1 in Schutzhund an hour away, and the 2 that offer herding are more than an hour away. I can't change that about where we live right now, but I can look at what's available where I will be going to school.

 Good on you Michelle!

Now as for breeds, are you set on the Rat Terrier or would you consider looking at others. A JRT may suit your needs if it's bred and raised right. Sandy is everything you want. Lol.  With the proper socialization they can be trustworthy around kids (with supervision of course). Sandy and I compete in Agility, we dabble in Obedience, she's a certified therapy dog. We don't do conformation cuz she's not the proper size or temperament. However she is my "go everywhere" dog. 

Now Maze is not. Aside from her breeding and training, she just doesn't like hyper kids. She gets nervous in large crowds. She HATES rude dogs (we're working on it). I did train Maze in Agility and she loved it. But circumstances state that she can't do it anymore. 

And trust me, I know about the living situation. Here in a small @ssed town, I have agility and tracking.. That's it... Lol. I'd love more then anything to get some obedience titles on Maze but I'm on my own on that one.

PM me if you wanna talk.

I've never spent much time around rat terriers so no advice on that end. I do understand wanting a dog to participate in certain activities.

 Checking out several different breeders and spending as much time around the breed before deciding is always a good idea.  :)   Go to every dog event you can and chat with the owners of the breeds you're interested in. 

Good job on planning before hand, that right there is a good sign you will do well. I have experiance with terriers and trust me they have all kinds of energy and drive, especially if bred for a purpose! I cant speak for the apperance bred terriers except Ive noticed they are just a shell of actual terriers from what ive seen.  A rat terrier would be a good choice for agility or flyball tho, Ive seen them at my flyball classes before and they did great!

Do your research and have fun looking threw breeders, I wish you luck and think you will do well from what I read you do for Misha.

Kitty, I'm not sure how I feel about other terriers. My aunt had a JRT who was really hyper and that I wasn't very fond of. Now, I know that's only one impression of the breed, and that there were other factors there too (the JRT was epileptic and had some health issues). I definitely thought she was cute, though there's more to getting a dog than just being adorable.

Jackie, I've also thought about looking at attending shows, but I'm not sure where they are around here. I travel around in the Carolinas and Georgia fairly frequently though, so I have no doubt I can find something around. I'm also only looking at breeders in these three states, but once I figure out where I'll be next year, I can expand (or contract) my search.

Thanks, proofpup, for the vote of confidence. 

 Terriers, IME, are master escape artists. Emma didn't know what a fence meant, and also wasn't really stopped by crates. She was the Master Of Disaster, especially as a puppy, and there was NO containing it. She leapt, climbed, dug, opened gates, opened latches from the inside and outside, even to the day she died. She chewed the wall THROUGH her padlocked crate. She opened doors. She got sick of waiting for me to feed her, so she climbed the cabinets, while I was in the shower, got out a can of food, and CHEWED IT OPEN in less than 10 minutes. I adore her but the dog was WORK. I don't know how the average JRT/PRT or Rattie compares, but she was a wild child.

If I were looking for a smooth coated, smallish but sturdy, attention loving, apartment suited performance dog, I'd look into Whippets, for sure. They are very low grooming, very little smell, tend to be quiet, the right size, and very sturdy dogs. They enjoy activities, but you will come up with trainers who are idiots and tell you sighthounds can't be trained. Standard Dachshunds are another REALLY fun, sturdy breed, and you might look into Papillions. They aren't short haired, but they are low maintenance. Bath and brush once a week, and you're good to go. They don't tend to be yappy, and they're AMAZING performance dogs.

The rat terriers I've met have show a lot of variation - some are very clingy, velcro and others are quite standoffish.  Most are kind of frenetic ime.  I've not seen many competing in agility, not sure why.

I think a lot of breeds and mixes would fit your criteria - you might want to get more specific in your needs/wants in a second dog as it might help you narrow down how well a specific dog might fit. 

Z is not the breed/mix or gender I originally was looking for as my second dog, but when I fostered her I realized that she fit *all* my criteria except for those. :)  She's a great little agility dog - exactly what I wanted and then some!

Fostering might also be a great way to try out different types of dogs, or even a specific breed (like rat terriers - I've done a home visit for rat terrier rescue myself so I know they are out there in your region).

Also keep in mind that the dog does not have to be purebred to compete - even AKC now allows mixes if you choose that venue.  For obedience the biggies would be AKC and UKC, for Rally you have APDT and AKC, and for agility you have USDAA, NADAC, CPE, and AKC.  I know there are other orgs for obedience and agility, but those are the biggies.

Erin, I've been considering the purebred/mixed breed thing and at the moment, I'm leaning towards the purebred route because I feel there's a smaller range of possibilities for aptitudes than with mutts. I also think that after a good, small companion dog, my main competitive interest is agility. I've broached the subject of fostering with my parents, but it's a topic that really isn't even feasible to approach until November -- and I've found two Rat Terrier rescues to apply to foster for, and the local Humane Society, if it's decided that everyone in the household can handle fostering. I do want to foster and am keeping an open mind about how what I think I want and what I really want may be two different things.

Jennie, the escape artist angle is my biggest fear. I know terriers that will climb, dig, wiggle, and chew their way out of their confinements, and that's something that I've pretty much never had to deal with with Misha. My experience with JRTs (and a friend of mine's experiences) have always been that they are hyper and hard to control -- though I think Emma would have taken the cake in inventiveness. She sounds like she was a really special kind of handful. I like Dachshunds, but the two I deal with have a tendency to pee in the house, and I know Misha has gotten too rough with Roto before and not realized he needed to stop. And I have no experience with Whippets, but a quick search online makes me weary that they'd be prone to bloat. I worry about Misha and bloat, and I'd like not to have to worry so much (though I know it happens in all breeds). They're larger than I thought, and I probably wouldn't have to worry about Misha stepping on one and hurting it, so that's a good thing.( I think I'll do some more research on them at a more reasonable hour...) I really don't want a Papillion, because I have a suspicion that I'm allergic to long haired dogs -- though I admire their looks, and the stories of their personalities I've gleaned from here.

Thanks for adding some thoughts, especially other breed suggestions, and the possibility of what I want and what I need being different. I need to be sure to keep and open mind! I've joined a Rattie board to try to see what they're doing, and try to see when they have get togethers to get better exposure to the breed and their owners. Right now all competitions are a 2+ hour drive from where I live, and that's pushing it for me getting there. 

If your ready for the energy and drive then youll be fine with a rattie but Jennie is right, a whippet is another really cool choice that might be an idea for you. They are super affectionate dogs and the ones I met did have some prey drive but not nearly as much as the terriers Ive met and owned. As for the bloat you can be careful and work around it by never running your dog on a full stomach and monitoring thier food intake, I know that isnt a fix-all but you can do the precautions.,

I was thinking too and ever think about a minpin? I have a miniature pinscher who is about 15 inches at the shoulder and 15 lbs, He is awesome at flyball and agility. Super fast, super smart and reallllyyy bonded to me. Now he is way out of standard but that doesnt bother me because I want nothing to do with show but that would be an issue for you since you would like to get into showing. So if you thought about a minpin you could go to a show breeder and get one thats in standard.

Just some ideas, Good luck!!!