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Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

Last post 09-04-2008 10:42 PM by BCMixs. 123 replies.
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  • 09-02-2008 12:25 PM In reply to BEVOLASVEGAS

    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    BEVOLASVEGAS:

    I have a question that I feel must be asked...

    *If* John McCain had chosen a male running mate, who had a pregnant teenage daughter, & a child with down's syndrome would everyone react the same way? 

    If you can honestly answer "yes" you would have a problem with a man running with these family issues hanging overhead, then I have no issue with this conversation.  If you believe that, just because she is a woman, she should be held to a different standard, then I believe that you may want to take a step back & re-examine things. 

    We are living in the 21st century.  I thought that women, & men had the exact same rights, & were held to the same standards.  It appears that I am sadly mistaken....

    Thank you Amanda.  Regardless of my political alignment, you definitely have a point.  If she was a man no one would question.  Do we want equal rights or not?

    Lisa - Charlie & Riley's Mommy
    A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
    -Josh Billings

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  • 09-02-2008 12:33 PM In reply to kpwlee

    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    I kind of feel like it's a bit of a lose/lost situation here.

    On one hand it has come up in a few different threads that the Rep party is going to sent women's rights back into the stone age, but on the other hand this woman has an amazing oppurtunity that wouldn't have been possible to a female many years ago but now there's negativity that she should be home taking care of the family.

    ETA:  When I hit reply I hadn't seen Amanda's post yet, but that was pretty much exactly what I was thinking.  Seems there is a different standard and that really bugs me.  I tend to not get riled up much but that's one that really gets me going....so before I go on a long shpiel I'm gonna stop now :o)

    ~Steph



    "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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  • 09-02-2008 12:39 PM In reply to BEVOLASVEGAS

    • kpwlee
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    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    BEVOLASVEGAS:
    *If* John McCain had chosen a male running mate, who had a pregnant teenage daughter, & a child with down's syndrome would everyone react the same way? 
     

    I've asked myself that same question and yea I am pretty sure I would.  I am equivocal about the down's syndrome infant as I suppose I think a baby that young with a serious handicap NEEDS their mother.  If that child were older  I would feel exactly the same with a male candidate.  This isn't just a job and the first year of life should have some stability and a ton of interaction with the mom ( and dad). 

    I recently had a client that was a surgical specialist who was leaving private practice to work for a non-profit because they had a handicap son who needed more structure and time.  Hired help can be great but they are not the parent.  She took an extraordinary step to try and provide all that she could for her young son.  She believes she'll go back into practice once he reaches 5.

    As for a parent that has a 17 yo pregnant daughter that would choose to go into an international spotlight - well I don't think that parent has the 17 yo in their best interest.  I say this as someone who has spent more than 10 yrs as a therapist for children and families (not private, state position so not an elitist clientele) A 17 yo may be physically mature enough to have babies - but in today's world - not 1950 - they aren't nearly emotionally mature enough to have babies, get married and play house.  Having to do so under this magnifying glass complicates it tremendously.

    My concern is for those children.

    I think that one who espouses family values should live them and by that I mean put them first


    "I think Karen should get a BC next time because she deserves a more mellow laid back dog! Or a Maremma because she needs a more clingy, biddable, easily trained dog." Brookcove 2008
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  • 09-02-2008 12:48 PM In reply to TheDogHouseBCMPD

    • kpwlee
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    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    TheDogHouseBCMPD:
    On one hand it has come up in a few different threads that the Rep party is going to sent women's rights back into the stone age,
     

    I do think that removing a woman's right to a legal abortion is archaic and a religious extreme.  If you are against them don't have one, just don't decide for everyone, rape victims included.  People will still have abortions just illegal ones and many in unacceptable non-sterile conditions.  That is the dark ages imho

    TheDogHouseBCMPD:
    on the other hand this woman has an amazing oppurtunity that wouldn't have been possible to a female
     

    Totally agree, just don't agree this is the woman. (for me and imo for HER family)

    I also think it helps to practice what one preaches - so if you are going to grandstand about family values - that have heretofore been defined by the conservative religious right (see abortion comments above) - you probably need to be squeaky clean and ultra family oriented in order to pull it off.  There's the rub - for me - with this choice.


    "I think Karen should get a BC next time because she deserves a more mellow laid back dog! Or a Maremma because she needs a more clingy, biddable, easily trained dog." Brookcove 2008
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  • 09-02-2008 12:57 PM In reply to BEVOLASVEGAS

    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    BEVOLASVEGAS:

    While my opinion will not be a popular one, I have to say that I am thrilled with McCain's decision to name Palin as his running mate.

    I am excited by the fact that she has seems to be a gutsy woman who can take care of herself. Seriously, she has called out multiple members of the Republican party for being corrupt. Not many politicians have the guts to do something of that magnitude.

    I will admit that she is inexperienced. That being said, she still has more executive experience than Obama has. She has been governor of her state for the past two years. Obama has only spent 143 days in the Senate.Huh?

    I think that she will put on quite a show come debate time.

     

     

    i whole heartedly agree with amanda. i think it was a gutsy move on mccain's part. i was leaning towards voting mccain, and this has sealed my vote.

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  • 09-02-2008 1:05 PM In reply to mrstjohnson

    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    Of course I do..foisting your child into the spotlight (and are we honestly saying NO ONE would have noticed or asked about her daughter?? yeah...) during a hard or emotionally trying time is a bad idea no matter what your sex is for heavenssake!

    She doesn't to me sound like ANYONE I'd have anything in common with even on the most basic things like family and life in general and I find her, and her priorities, kinda ooky. Male or female.

    Gina H.
    dog.community Moderator


    " Let's get it crunk upon, have fun upon...up in this dancery!"-Mary J. Blige

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  • 09-02-2008 1:17 PM In reply to kpwlee

    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    kpwlee:

    I also think it helps to practice what one preaches - so if you are going to grandstand about family values - that have heretofore been defined by the conservative religious right (see abortion comments above) - you probably need to be squeaky clean and ultra family oriented in order to pull it off.  There's the rub - for me - with this choice.

    I guess I don't know the official party definition of 'family values' b/c I don't think she is really going against them.  She's married, is raising kids (yea she works, but their are quite a few working moms around) she hasn't aborted any (that I'm aware of) and is offering support to her daughter even though she probably doesn't agree w/ her choice to have a child before marriage.  To me that follows w/ family values.  I'm sure it would be better for Palin if her daughter was married before getting pregnant but Palin really can't dictate that.  Her daughter is her own person who makes her own choices that are not always going to be the same as her mothers.  The only think Palin can control is how she handles that.  She's said she is there for her daughter and is not shutting her out.  That's really the best she can do and that choice follows 'family values' to me.

    ~Steph



    "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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  • 09-02-2008 1:17 PM In reply to rwbeagles

    • Truley
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    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    I would have the same issue's if it were a man in the VP seat with a special needs child and another pregnant. Could have come out either way, she could have had a son who's girlfriend got pregnant. I do not believe in picking on people for what their children do. You can have all the standard and value's you want, determinded teenagers are going to find a way. I also do not hold her husbands DUI from 22 years ago against him, it was 22 years ago, which ment 1986, were we as a people, were still learning the remifications, it is apparent enough he made a mistake and moved past it, who am I to beat him up over it?

    My biggest issue's are the number of times he met with her (reportedly twice and for a couple of hours) and her stance on abortion. She is just to conservative for me.

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  • 09-02-2008 1:20 PM In reply to rwbeagles

    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    rwbeagles:

    Of course I do..foisting your child into the spotlight (and are we honestly saying NO ONE would have noticed or asked about her daughter?? yeah...) during a hard or emotionally trying time is a bad idea no matter what your sex is for heavenssake!

    Agreed.  And whether or not you agree with their politics, this is one area where the Clintons did an amazing job.  For eight years they managed to keep Chelsea out of the spotlight and keep the press at arms length. Of course, she wasn't pregnant .... but if she had been, there's a good chance we would never have known about it.

    Joyce

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  • 09-02-2008 1:22 PM In reply to Truley

    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    Truley:
    I would have the same issue's if it were a man in the VP seat with a special needs child and another pregnant.

    I think if it were a male VP nom then it wouldn't have been made into as big of an issue as it has been w/ Palin.  Just my opinion.

    ~Steph



    "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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  • 09-02-2008 1:34 PM In reply to BEVOLASVEGAS

    • BCMixs
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    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    Well, as a Mom, and a stay-at-home one at that, I feel it's pretty important for an infant (particularly a special needs infant) to be raised by a parent in their first few years, not a babysitter.  I haven't read that her husband is going to be quitting his job and caring full-time for this child.  In fact, what I see is the pregnant daughter holding said child.  Wonder how often that's happened with her other siblings because Mom & Dad were out putting their careers ahead of their families?  That may speak to why she feels at 17 she can handle the responsibilities of children and marriage, because she's already had the experience.   I also feel that when a family is in crisis, that family's job is to focus on themselves and exercise some self-care.  I don't see that as possible while launching a national Presidential campaign.  It's not a gender judgment, it's a family and priority judgment.  


    30 lbs. by Christmas, down 5.8 lbs., 24.2 to go!!!
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  • 09-02-2008 1:42 PM In reply to TheDogHouseBCMPD

    • Truley
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    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    TheDogHouseBCMPD:

    Truley:
    I would have the same issue's if it were a man in the VP seat with a special needs child and another pregnant.

    I think if it were a male VP nom then it wouldn't have been made into as big of an issue as it has been w/ Palin.  Just my opinion.

    I don't know, you could be right, but in a race like this EVERYTHING comes to light.

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  • 09-02-2008 1:45 PM In reply to rwbeagles

    • denise m
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    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    I can't comment on her political credentials to be VP as I do not know enough about her, but I'm sure one her her first reactions when asked to run, must have been 'the timing sucks'. She obviously has a LOT on her personal plate. Unfortunately, such an opportunity does not come along everyday I'm sure she realizes it will probably never come again. I can understand her dilemma. If her husband and family support her choice, despite their personal issues (which I assume they do), then I cannot impose my personal preferences or reasoning on her.

     



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  • 09-02-2008 2:15 PM In reply to BCMixs

    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

    BCMixs:
    In fact, what I see is the pregnant daughter holding said child.  Wonder how often that's happened with her other siblings because Mom & Dad were out putting their careers ahead of their families?  That may speak to why she feels at 17 she can handle the responsibilities of children and marriage, because she's already had the experience.

     

    That's quite a bit of inference from a picture don't ya think?  And yea, the daughter probably does help w/ the younger kids...most kids I knew (myself included) did, that's not some awful thing.

    I'm pretty much in agreement w/ what Denise said (and said so much better than I would have)

    ~Steph



    "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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  • 09-02-2008 2:34 PM In reply to TheDogHouseBCMPD

    • Dog_ma
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    Re: Palin & Polar Bears - Jeano, speak up!

     As a woman, I am insulted that McCain chose a woman who is so unqualified. This reeks of tokenism. Would McCain have picked a man equally inexperienced? Or did he see "conservative Christian woman" and think he could gain some support from the Christian right (who dislike him) and steal some Hillary supporters?

    I look forward to the day when female candidates are held to the same standards as male candidates, and not excused because they will be (gag) "learning at the feet of the master." (A real quote, defending Palin's lack of foreign policy experience.)  

    And yes, there are times when men do not run for office because the impact on their families. Colin Powell comes to mind.  



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