Vaccination Vent

• 03-03-2008 12:35 PM

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,431 Points 25

  Vaccination Vent Reply Contact  Why do manufacturers insist on packaging these things together so you can't pick and choose what you want put into your dog? I went over things with my vet today regarding Woobie and shots, titers, etc. She was very helpful, but did seem a little resistant to him not getting certain things. Like Lepto. Which it turns out he hasn't gotten at all because the combo vaccine they were using at his last visit didn't have it but now the new one does. But I can't get *just* lepto, I've got to get it in with a bunch of other things that I don't want and feel he doesn't need, like Distemper and Parvo, which he's either been fully vaccinated for already or has had. I have to read up on a bunch of the stuff she told me about Lepto, but part of me feels that if it was an acceptable risk to them for the past year due to reactions in the past, why not now? She says because the reactions were more common than the disease but now the vaccine's been reformulated, so fewer reactions and it's important to get it. BUT, it only covers 4 of 7 serovars and the 3 not covered are making a comeback, but there's nothing you can do about those anyway, etc. etc. etc. My head is spinning a bit, but it looks as though I can't pick and choose to only have him singly vaccinated for the ones he either needs now or the ones he hasn't had yet. They drew the blood samples needed and I'm sending titers to Hemopet for Rabies, Distemper & Parvo. Don't really need the parvo, but it's part of the Distemper package so I'll have an indication on where his immunity to that stands. I'm sure it seems silly to the vet and others that I'll pay more for the titers than to just get the shots, but I'm really reevaluating what EVERYONE in the house gets for health care, meds, food, etc. and I don't want to just blast him full of everything under the sun "just because" and since he's got the only thing required by law (from what I can tell) this really is my decision and no one else's. I just wish it was easier to educate myself on all of this AND to have the ability to say "Ok, I only want Lepto and CAV-2 and I want the CAV-2 to be a 3 year and not a one year because you want to make more money off me." I'm also not the happiest camper that after checking prices, I realize they're charging a markup of $20 on the heartworm preventative I use. I'll be ordering that from Drs. Foster and Smith from now on. Thanks for letting me go on.....   P.S. I do love my vets and I won't be switching and I'm sure they have the best interests of my animal's at heart BUT, I'll also be looking into a local holistic vet because I'm noticing that my dogs did do better on some more natural things rather than the Rx things that have been recommended to me so far.  Not that I don't respect their opinions, etc. but when I live with my dogs and I see a noticeable difference between before and after certain changes and they're not necessarily for the good, I start to question.  30 lbs. by Christmas, down 4 lbs., 26 to go!!!

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• 03-03-2008 12:57 PM

  In reply to BCMixs

  dogslife Joined on 08-22-2006 Posts 1,184 Points 150

  Re: Vaccination Vent Reply Contact I'm sure they have the best interests of my animal's at heart BUT, I'll also be looking into a local holistic vet because I'm noticing that my dogs did do better on some more natural things rather than the Rx things that have been recommended to me so far.  Not that I don't respect their opinions, etc. but when I live with my dogs and I see a noticeable difference between before and after certain changes and they're not necessarily for the good, I start to question.    The vets choice is to purchase it this way or not. The vet makes a lot of extra cash by buying the immunizations in bulk.  I disagree that they always have your best interest at heart.  The business is to make money. And although we have "caring" souls in the facility,  that practice of shooting dogs up with the generalised immunizations contradicts how we put our trust. I too am sick of being "pushed" into every shot they want to get money for. Almost would like to pay them to NOT give certain shots, thankyou verymuch!! One of my dogs is allergic and it was scary to recognize it is the immunizations that caused it. Good for you on finding a wholistic vet. I need to do this too.  Honestly, it was easier with human children than puppies. It is nerve wracking. Siberian huskies are a lot like potato chips. We need to have more than one!

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• 03-03-2008 1:44 PM

  In reply to dogslife

  iluvmydog Joined on 03-02-2008 Posts 9 Points 90

  Re: Vaccination Vent Reply Contact Hi - I would never vaccinate a puppy or dog with multiple vaccines - like DHLPP etc.  My dog was vaccinated mercilessly as a young pup and I believe that is part of the reason why she has had such a lousy immune system her whole life. She has suffered with chronic allergies and had a mast cell cancer at age 3.  She is now 10.5 - - and I am still searching for the cause of her hypercalcemia - see my post in the health/illness area.  After she got cancer 7 years ago - I've never vaccinated her for another thing throughout her life, that includes rabies.  I go get a rabies vaccine waiver letter from my vet and give it to the town each year she is due to be licensed.  I know the 'risks' - but she is never around wild animals, and would not bite someone, so I take my chances - which are worth it vs. compromising her already lousy immune system because she has had cancer.

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• 03-03-2008 2:16 PM

  In reply to iluvmydog

  sandra_slayton Joined on 09-10-2007 Ingleside, Texas Posts 3,196 Points 0

  Re: Vaccination Vent Reply Contact Six years ago my 2 1/2 year old golden retriever had a severe reaction to her 2ed set of annual vax.  Within 45 minutes here eyes were slowwen almost shut, her ears thick with one huge hive on each ear, her snout looked like it had pencil erasers under the skin, she had hives from the sixe of pennies to silver dolls on sides and back, and her tummy was one fire engine red hive and her temp was 106.9.  My vet was about 99.9% sure it was the lepto.  But he wrote on her files in huge letters :RAVIES ONLY, however, 3 years ago we had am pitbreal pf distemper in the area and i elected to giver her a booster, distemper only.  Gave er benadryl early in the monring, took her in nd she got the vax and they kept her in ICU all day--at no charge to me--to keep an eye on her.  She didn't have a problem.  My vet has gone to the 3 year schedule of vax and you can get individual vax, not the massive doses of mixed.  He thinks the increae in autoimmune diseases and cancer that he is seeing is partly due to over vaccinating.

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• 03-03-2008 4:10 PM

  In reply to sandra_slayton

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,431 Points 25

  Re: Vaccination Vent Reply Contact  I like the idea of giving the individual vaccines, even if it results in higher costs to me because if there is a reaction, you can at least tend to narrow down the list of likely culprits rather than trying to sort out which of the 7 you just shot into one spot could have caused it.  I also have to say I don't agree with the "Oh you can vaccinate with that all you want and not hurt the dog at all" position that I've gotten from more than one person on this little odyssey.  My other dog, Indie, has been overvaccinated in his short life IMHO and his visit should be interesting as well.  I found a vet who has single serving vaccines and they seem very open to the "picking and choosing" so I'm going to see them for a 2nd opinion on everything.  They're at the place Indie goes for hydrotherapy so I'll just kill 2 birds on Wednesday and see what they suggest.  Ideally, I'd like to wait like a month or so in between each shot and watch for reactions.  I'm also probably going to titer for as much as I can that isn't mandated by state law.  I think rabies is the only state requirement and I'm going to do bordetella yearly for day care, classes, etc. that require it and because I volunteer at a shelter and probably do bring it home even though I'm careful. I had this same problem with my allergic asthmatic son, sorting out all the medical findings, etc., dealing with multiple antibiotic allergies/sensitivities and trying to find a way that he wouldn't miss 95 days of school a year was a trial!  I thought I was through with all that now that he's grown up and responsible for himself!   Pfffftttt!    30 lbs. by Christmas, down 4 lbs., 26 to go!!!

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• 03-06-2008 12:21 PM

  In reply to BCMixs

  Kris L. Christine Joined on 02-04-2008 Posts 75 Points 0

  Re: Vaccination Vent Reply Contact I switched to a homeopathic veterinarian over 4 years ago -- it was the best thing I've ever done for my dogs.  You can do an online search for one near you at American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association http://www.holisticvetlist.com/, Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy http://www.theavh.org/referral/index.php  You will find the approach to healing remarkably different.  My veterinarian regularly buys single vaccines, because that is the way she gives them if her clients choose to use conventional vaccines, and she gave full disclosure on duration of immunity and adverse reactions from the first day! Kris L. Christine Founder, Co-Trustee THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND

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• 03-06-2008 12:27 PM

  In reply to dogslife

  Kris L. Christine Joined on 02-04-2008 Posts 75 Points 0

  Re: Vaccination Vent Reply Contact dogslife: I too am sick of being "pushed" into every shot they want to get money for. Good for you on finding a wholistic vet. I need to do this too.  You can find a homeopathic/holistic veterinarian near you by doing an online search on these websites:  American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association http://www.holisticvetlist.com/, Academy of Veterinary Homeopathy http://www.theavh.org/referral/index.php.  I switched to a homeopath several years ago and firmly believe that if I had done so before, my Meadow would still be alive.       Veterinary trade publications have frankly addressed the issue of the link between vaccines and income.       A related story Improving Veterinarians' Income a Top Goal of  AVMA President-elect candidate Childers. can be found at http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/mar04/040315g.asp.       In an August 2004 cover story in Veterinary Economics entitled Targeting Changing Vaccine Protocols by Roger F. Cummings, they state that: "In the 1970s and ’80s many veterinarians derived a substantial percent of their total incomes from vaccinating dogs and cats. .....And in many practices today, the vaccination reminder is the one thing that drives visits from healthy pets. So changing your vaccine protocols could have a significant affect on practice finances."        Dr. Alice Wolf, Professor of Small Animal Internal Medicine at Texas A&M College of Veterinary Medicine, stated in an address (Vaccines of the Present and Future http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00141.htm) at the 2001 World Small Animal Veterinary Association World Congress that: “some veterinarians use the recommendation for vaccinations as a way to ensure client visits for yearly examinations and, least appropriate, as a ‘profit center.’”       In an October 1, 2002 DVM Newsletter article entitled, AVMA, AAHA to Release Vaccine Positions, http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=35171, Jennifer Fiala reports, "The statement stresses AVMA's stance on education, a reduction in the profession's dependence on vaccine sales, which account for a significant portion of practice income, ..........Veterinarians must promote the value of the exam and move away from their dependence on vaccine income. "       DVM's July 1, 2003 article,  Developing Common Sense Strategies for Fiscal Responsibility http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=61694  declares that, "The purpose of this article is to focus on the third of these essential cornerstones: the economic realities of protocol changes, and how medical and surgical standards including reduced frequency of vaccination can be compatible with financial viability; and, yes, even success. ........For a real eye-opener of potential revenue loss, research practice records for the most recent 12 months of client activity to determine the estimated number of adult canine patients that were seen for annual vaccinations. Multiply this number times the revenue loss calculated above on an individual patient basis to determine the total potential lost income. "       From a July 1, 2003 DVM article entitled, What Do We Tell Our Clients? , http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=61696, "It has finally happened. The American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) has released canine vaccine guidelines. Some practitioners may dread it and consider the recommendations as a 'practice buster.' ......The concern of course is the loss of our 'vaccine hook.' "   On Page 18 of the American Animal Hospital Association's 2003 Canine Vaccine Guidelines, the task force declares:  "However, the ethical issue that our profession struggles with today is whether economics justifies giving an animal a drug (vaccines are biologic drugs) that is not necessarily required.  As a minimum, we should allow pet owners to make this choice rather than make it for them."       If anyone would like copies of the American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines, the 1992 French challenge study demonstrating that dogs were immune to a rabies challenge 5 years after vaccination, the 2003 Italian study documenting fibrosarcomas at the presumed injection sites of rabies vaccines in dogs, as well as Dr.  W. Jean Dodds' papers on vaccinal adverse reactions, please e-mail me at ledgespring@lincoln.midcoast.com.   PERMISSION GRANTED TO CROSS-POST THIS MESSAGE.   Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know, Dr. Ronald Schultz http://www.cedarbayvet.com/duration_of_immunity.htm   World Small Animal Veterinary Association 2007 Vaccine Guidelines http://www.wsava.org/SAC.htmScroll down to Vaccine Guidelines 2007 (PDF)   The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are accessible online at http://www.leerburg.com/special_report.htm .   The 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are downloadable in PDF format at http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocumen...s06Revised.pdf .   Veterinarian, Dr. Robert Rogers,has an excellent presentation on veterinary vaccines at http://www.newvaccinationprotocols.com/ Kris L. Christine Founder, Co-Trustee THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND

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• 03-06-2008 5:36 PM

  In reply to Kris L. Christine

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,431 Points 25

  Re: Vaccination Vent Reply Contact  Thanks for the info!  I've downloaded several of those articles and others.  I love my academic access, I'm going to miss it dearly when I graduate!  I've got to download and save as much as I can before the summer is over. I plan on sending Woobie's titer results along with a letter to my state and county representatives with some info on vaccinations from those articles and others.  I really want Virginia to begin accepting titers as acceptable proof of immunity for licensing purposes.  I'm a law-abiding citizen and believe as strongly as anyone about protecting public health and all that, but there is more than one way to do it and I should not be forced into having a dog who is sufficiently protected against rabies be subjected to an additional inoculation just because they mandate it.   Heck, I used titers to avoid having to be re-immunized for everything when I returned to college as an aged adult, why can't my dog use them just to reside in my home????  As far as the other vaccinations, that's a harder decision to make without specific titers for each and every thing, whether or not to treat preventively for fleas and ticks, etc.  but I'm trying to read as much as I can and form an educated opinion.  It's tough though when you want to ask questions of a vet, but that vet is naturally operating from a profit perspective or their opinions must be naturally influenced by the deaths they've seen from certain illnesses.  That fear is certainly a factor when I think about NOT vaccinating them for something, even once I discover the vet didn't vaccinate him for something and I didn't know it, like Lepto.  Saying No to something healthwise when it's advised by a professional is really hard.  You feel like you're saying "No, I don't care about my pet, forget the shots." or "Well, I'd rather spend my money on a new pair of shoes than that rabies shot, thanks anyway."  And it's not the case at all.  The titers are certainly costing me way more than the shots would but the worry of an illness down the line and that look of "well I warned you" that might be on the vet's face should your pet get sick is really tough to handle!   30 lbs. by Christmas, down 4 lbs., 26 to go!!!

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• 03-06-2008 7:34 PM

  In reply to BCMixs

  Kris L. Christine Joined on 02-04-2008 Posts 75 Points 0

  Re: Vaccination Vent Reply Contact If you want me to e-mail you my canine vaccine information, please contact me at ledgespring@lincoln.midcoast.com and I'll e-mail it to you.  You're free to share it with anyone and everyone -- there's far more than I could every post, and it's all excellent material.  I'm so glad you're finding my posts useful!   Kris Kris L. Christine Founder, Co-Trustee THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND

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