ObsidianD:
I am worried because she is senile now and does not know who I am.
Do you really think she doesn't know you at all ... or just not at certain times?
ObsidianD:
She has lost the concept of "go around" which at first I mistook for increasing loss of vision. She can see and startles by anything entering her vision field now. Her hearing seems to have decreased over time but she is not totally deaf or anything like that. Her sense of smell also seems to have decreased. She can still hear me put a spoon on my glass cutting board, so I knwo she can still hear if there is no background noise. These things all seem fairly normal for an elderly dog with senility.
spatial stuff is common both with humans and with dogs -- my best guess is it's not so much 'go around' as it simply is she's not quite on the planet enough to know there's something in her way that she needs to avoid. In other words, if she's concentrating on something else (as in going to find out what she heard when you put the spoon down on the cutting board) the fact that there are things in her way just doesn't quite make it to her brain -- in other words, they lose the ability to think on more than one elemental concept at one time.
I have an elderly peke (and she wasn't treated well, and has more than her share of mental fogginess) -- and a lot of times you will find she's on her way TO something and suddenly she'll stop and kinda tilt her head like 'now .. what WAS it I was gonna do??'
In other words, in order to walk around something you need to be conscious of the fact that there is something THERE to be avoided (and not trip over) and it just doesn't make it to that body awareness part of the brain. This is why senior citizens are more apt to trip over something and fall and hurt themselves.
ObsidianD:
I am worried that I will miss the signs about it being time to put her down, and some of her behaviors I cannot explain, or I am not positive that my explanations are the right ones. I am hoping someone here has had similar experiences and can give me some things to look out for (besides the obvious not eating/drinking, if it gets to that then it will be clear to me).
I have -- I have had MANY senior animals (I just lost a sheltie mix two years ago who was literally one month shy of 19, and I have had others live to be older). It's hard to see them lose their way like this ... but it's also obvious that the dog isn't in terrific pain either.
I think in your situation I'm going to say first, I don't think there IS a 'wrong answer'. I don't mean that in ANY way to be a cop out. Not at all. It's a tough call .. and honestly I think it comes down to your animal's personality and your own ... and what you are both comfortable with. The depth of your bond is important as well -- how well YOU know **this** dog.
The way *I* have always done it is that I talk to my dogs constantly. Now some folks do and some folks don't. But my dogs are more apt to focus on my voice than anything, other than my touch. But I also talk to them about everyday stuff. We talk about Rainbow Bridge .. and dogs who have died. Just because a dog dies here, we don't stop talking about them. But I also let my dogs see the "departed" dog if at all possible before burial (or cremation or whatever was necessary/chosen) because I want them to draw their own conclusions about death. So when I talk about a dog who has died I know they understand that concept. (probably better than I do, in fact, since they can smell death far before we can).
I ask them to "let me know". It has come in various ways -- with one it was simply a refusal to eat .. a conscious attempt on her own part to suicide (she wasn't nauseus -- she just plain wanted it to be over and she knew food was required for life).
With Foxy -- his life force was very strong ... and he had two bouts with vestibular disease -- the first, like your dog, he was able to completely overcome (along with a couple of other health challenges that year) -- but the second .. his body simply shut down. The vet and I knew the body was just plain not cooperating (a breakdown of body tissue, his body just didn't want to process food or anything any more) -- but Foxy wasn't ready to quit yet. But finally one day he just plain decided "no more". He wouldn't try to stand to potty, he wouldn't take even water ... his refusal to 'do' any of the things he had done (albeit not greedily but willingly) the day before -- nope, he was DONE. He did what I asked .. he 'told' me by refusing things I knew were important to him.
My point is -- it varies with the dog. Think about THIS dog .. and what life qualities were most important. If food was never this dog's top priority in life then it's not going to be the way to tell when this dog is 'finished'. If this dog never had a high drive for affection, then refusing affection from you is not going to be the way the tale is told here.
Does that make sense? Ask the dog .. in any moments of clarity to show you what to do. They aren't going to suddenly give birth to words ... but they will demonstrate in action pretty clearly usually.
ObsidianD:
Her behaviors:
1. She bites me whenever I touch her. She does not bite hard or harm me, but she clearly is distressed/afraid. I don't know if she does not know me, if she is in pain (the vet does not think so and can't find any obvious area of pain), or if it is something else. I can pet her without being bitten, but I have to get her to sit and stare her right in the face when I do it, then she won't bite me. After the first few bites she stops and lets me pet her or attach her lead to her or whatever I need to do, but it starts with a bite.
Probably of any of the examples you've given, this one may be the most telling -- on one hand she's using bite inhibition and not hurting. So I'm not sure whether she's simply being completely grumpy and really doesn't want to be touched or communicated with, OR on the other hand, does she eventually recognize you.
I think ... depending on the bond you have had with her ... it would greatly concern me if I thot she didn't derive comfort from my presence. But that would be with *my* dogs -- and I have one now, an old lady peke, that we took just two years ago this week. She has had a **hard** life and she doesn't trust ANY human fully at all. She doesn't ever turn to a human for comfort ... not at all, not e-v-e-r!!
On the other hand this isn't a dog who would ever try to "hang around" JUST to please me. That wouldn't be something she'd do because she's never that happy with any human. The first ones she will look for when she gets to Rainbow Bridge will be her brother (a sibling she was reared with and I truly think when Mee Shu died she lost her reason to live) ... and my old sheltie mix Foxy (whom she completely doted on and then HE left her).
When you say you 'stare' at your dog -- in most cases that would be the way to get bitten. But obviously it works ... so I'm hoping you mean she eventually knows you??
ObsidianD:
2. She will shake all over, especially in the morning and at night. This does not happen every day but it does happen almost everyday. She is more likely to shake if she needs to go outside.
Trembling can mean a lot of things and mostly it can be a sign of stress or even indecision. If she needs to go 'out' and it takes ALL her concentration not to make a mess that would likely stress her enough to 'shake'.
ObsidianD:
3. She paces the house at night often accompanied by panting, but not always. She will ask to go outside sometimes as much as every 10 minutes. She does not go to the bathroom any more often than usual though (every few hours). The problem is that I never know when she HAS to go outside and when she is just asking for some other reason. I suspect she is trying to figure out where she is.
This isn't unusual. Many dogs will get the "night wanderings". They can't settle -- it's as tho their brain just puts their feet in motion because they can't 'stop'.
SOMETIMES going "out" may not be for elmination at all -- and I suspect it is more a need by the body for oxygen.
Has the vet indicated how the heart is??
I've had three different dogs over the past few years who essentially, for various reasons and to varying degrees, needed more oxygen for their heart than they were getting. In EVERY case, they wanted to be outside far more than was "normal" for them, and far more than was healthy or convenient. My holistic vet was the one who finally explained to me that it literally is an attempt by the body to get fresh air -- MORE oxygen than is perceived inside. It's an inate thing -- literally a natural attempt to be where they can breathe more fresh air.
*Suggestion* -You will know with just one bottle if this will help. Try a supplement caled Co-Q-10. You can get it anywhere -- from a health store to Walgreens or Wal-Mart. Quality does matter tho -- what you get at Walgreens may not be as effective as one from a health store so you may need to give more to get the same effect.
A typical dose that *I* have used in the past is twice the body weight (or close) in mg. For example, I've got a cocker right now who has suddenly come up with a grade 3 heart murmur -- and I'm giving him 75 mg of Co-Q-10 2-3 times a day. it's a little more than twice his 'weight' but it's effective for him.
All Co-Q-10 does is get oxygen to the cells -- it puts oxygen where the body needs it ... FAST. Try a bottle and see if it helps. It usually will show you a difference in just a couple of days -- and you won't overdose it. But simply see if it helps a) the urgency to go outside at odd times, and b) it may even help cognitive function a bit (not much - this is no miracle thing here - just a small help).
*Suggestion 2* -- I use a holistic vet who does TCVM (Traditional Chinese Veterinary medicine) -- now I don't mean instead of a regular vet (we have one of those too). But the TCVM vet does acupuncture (which can be a big help in cognitive function actually) and also there are Chinese herbs that directly impact that "night wandering" thing. It's VERY common -- and giving them something to help settle them down is a big help sometimes.
Sometimes the stuff we give to help the cognitive dysfunction ALSO keeps them awake. You may be, in a small way, battling side effects here.
ObsidianD:
4. Now when outside I am noticing little water spots on the porch. It appears to be that she has taken to salivating more when she is outside and it is dripping off of her tongue, I believe (as opposed to the sides of her mouth). She used to do that when I would take her to the dog park, which I stopped because she just didn't like it there.
I'm still thinking this is stress -- perhaps there are stairs she's unsure of? (she may not be sure she's 'with it' enough to get down stairs -- she may doubt her own steadiness)
This may ALSO be exaggerated panting -- again a coping mechanism by the body to get more oxygen in -- again the Co-Q-10 should help that.
ObsidianD:
5. On occasion she will be outside for 20-30 minutes and when I let her back in she will poop on the floor in the house. I think this is the senility. She has urinated in the house, but only twice and never in her own area. I work long days and she does have control of herself.
You're probably right -- however, old dogs also can lose the ability to 'feel' in the lower end of the intestinal tract -- that pressure that indicates "gotta go now" may not work well -- and she may not be able to 'feel' or be able to voluntarily 'push' to be finished. Partly that's senility -- partly it's dysfunction just due to old age.
Sometimes you will see an elderly dog ... and this sounds funny and it's not ... "drop a turd". Literally they can't 'feel' there is fecal matter close to the anus and either when they are standing not paying attention or sometimes when they are asleep, the body will push that bit of fecal matter out and they will either not notice it at all, or they will be surprised ("WHO did that?? That smells like ... me????") I've seen some dogs become completely embarassed and unglued by that.
ObsidianD:
6. The loss of "go around" has lead to a situation where she walks over and through her dishes, no matter where I put them. She spills her water and food constantly as a result. One day I cleaned up her food 3 times in 15 minutes.
See what I wrote above
ObsidianD:
7. She gets lost in corners and seeks out small areas. She never used to seek out small areas at all.
This can mean pain. An animal in pain, or in distress will face a corner. I know there is a technical name for it, but the way I've always explained it to myself is that it's simply their way of focusing -- elminating ALL distractions by facing a corner. It's not a healthy sign.
It can also simply be confusion. If you turn the dog around will it simply go off and do something else? Or will it attempt to go back to the corner?
*Suggestion* I think I would honestly leave a leash or even a ribbon dragging on this dog -- simply so you can get some control without 'touching' the dog. Even a length of ribbon tied (not enough to get tangled in tho) but anything you can use to get hold of so you have some measure of control over this dog. Whether to get the dog to change directions, or to help it -- the fact that she resorts to biting would make me want to be sure I can control her kindly but without having to fumble for a leash.
ObsidianD:
8. She makes noises that I can't explain other than to say the are protest noises or attention noises. She will do this at no particular time. Sometimes she will be walking , sometimes lying down, never in the act of changing positions (which would make me think it was pain related). This behavior is increasing and she now does this daily.
Again you're probably right -- it's possible that at least part of it is pain related ... or it could simply be vocalizing (grumbling and griping??) But it's likely that it's just her version of talking to herself -- giving voice to something that she would have endured stoically in the past.
ObsidianD:
She eats and drinks normally. She is on anti-senility medication and thyroid medication. She has a protein allergy and is on special food since she was 7 years old for this. She does not act like she is in pain, i.e. she does not whimper or favor any area, lick any area, look at any area etc. She cannot walk around the block very well anymore so we don't do that (She is too weak to get up the hills and cant control herself too well coming down them). She has not slept with me since last year and if I put her on the bed she freaks out major. She does not appear to have any pain when getting up or down but does have muscle control loss and so I have carpet over all of my linoleum. Otherwise she looks a bit like when Bambi was learning to walk. Her eyes seem alert and attentive.
ObsidianD:
How do I know if what she is going through now is or is not "suffering?" She seems happy enough but I know they will hide this. I love her dearly and would hate it if I somehow prolonged her suffering, and I would hate it just as much if I asked her to exit before she was honestly ready to do so. This is bothering me every day because I just don't know. I looked it up online and all I could really get was "when it was time I just knew" which is really not much information. Any help or experience that anyone can share would be helpful and appreciated.
I would make a list with the help of your vet -- a check list for *her* quality of life. If he can help you determine if any of the above is health related (particularly the state of the heart)
It will need to be a list of easily measurable things -- refusal to eat, refusal to stand, elminate, etc.
But also since she is biting/mouthing you have an additional duty to make sure she doesn't inflict harm inadvertently. Not just for your own safety, BUT seriously -- this is where you weigh what this dog would want.
Probably the most matter of fact thing I can say is that I typically literally have a sit down talk with the dog. Now I talk to my dogs all the time, so it's nothing unusual. But I literally put myself in the position of imagining what the dog would say IF it *could* talk .. and if it were in it's right mind enough to talk.
1. Are you happy this way? Is sleep and food sufficient for you right now?
2. Would this dog have hated "being this"??? Would this dog .. in it's normal 'right' mind have so hated any sort of dependance that it would literally rather be dead than live like this?
this dog is still getting everywhere under it's own power and obviously is still indicating STRONGLY to you it's preference - in/out/eat/etc. So you will know if that changes.
I think I would have to go back to that first paragraph -- the fact that this dog 'bites' when you touch it. How integral is that to your relationship with THIS dog. If you think this dog is truly "living in fear" and really is mentally in a state that it would have hated being in ... that's going to affect your answer.
But for your own peace of mind, you honestly need to arrive at a list. And your vet is the one to help you with that. And in this case, the list may have things on it -- like any real indication that the bite inhibition has "slipped" -- that will help you to safely find your answer.
This is never ever easy. I tend to crawl inside my dog's head .. and that's not easy for others to do. but I usually find my answer in letting them indicate to me their intolerance for life. Honestly that relieves the burden from me -- it's not me trying to subjectively "decide" ... but it's rather more a matter of me listening to them tell me when they are just plain uncomfortable (mentally OR physically) with going on.
I hope that is at least helpful for you. Callie
