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beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

Last post 11-07-2007 10:21 PM by nfowler. 28 replies.
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  • 11-05-2007 10:52 AM

    • kiewi
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    beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    Deegan is our 2 yr old beagle/jack russell, neutered. We've had him since he was 5 months old. His "discipline" consists mainly of wearing his muzzle for about 5 minutes, which he absolutely hates -- we're not sure why but it works well. He gets his muzzle when he steals our other dog's food, steals our food, gets into the garbage, or barks uncontrollably. He definitely exhibits alpha behavior, normally playing with the biggest of the big dogs at the dog park and sometimes picks on smaller dogs or "weaker" dogs if given the chance. He does however give in to our other dog Mandy, a spayed mini dachschund/beagle mix, even though she is smaller and calmer than him. He lets her win mostly when they rough house.

    His first display of aggression I can remember was one time he was in trouble, don't remember for what, several months back. I went to reach for him to put his muzzle on and he bolted upstairs. When I reached for him a second time he beared his teeth at me, growled, and barked at me. It was something I'd never seen him do to me and though he's only 22 lbs, it made me pull back. I didn't know what to do so I told him "no" and put him in his crate for a time out.

    More recently, we just moved in to a new house a little over a week ago. Last week when the cable guy came out Deegan barked at him like he usually does when a stranger comes in. It didn't seem like an aggressive act, just Deegan's normal loud barking. The guy put down his hand to say hello. Deegan would normally be fine with this, he's very curiuos and friendly, but not this time! He bit his hand. I can kind of see why this happened though since you would never stick you hand in a much bigger dog's face but it still surprised me though because Deegan has never behaved this way.

    Over the weekend we were all sitting on the couch watching tv, myself, my boyfriend, and our 2 dogs and cuddling for quite some time. When Brian got up for a second and came back, Deegan was in his way so he told him "down." Deegan didn't budge and Brian repeated, "down!" When Deegan still didn't move, Brian reached out to pick him and move him but when he did, Deegan bit his hand. Again, not being sure what to do, we put him in his crate in a quiet, dark room for a time out.

    I am a little concerned about Deegan's behavior. I know he's an alpha and we try to keep him in line by doing things such as making him wait to enter a door behind us, he's not allowed on our bed, he must sit and stay before he gets his food, etc. He's been through obedience school too. I am not sure why he's starting to bite though but I really want to stop this immediately. He's always been very sweet and the friendliest dog. What is the cause for this behavior and if he does bite someone what do we do afterward to make him know that this is not okay behavior?

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  • 11-05-2007 10:57 AM In reply to kiewi

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    No expert here but I can definitely say the muzzle has likely caused the aggression to escalate. Dogs do not understand things the way people do...he likely has NO idea why you are putting that thing on him and has decided that defending himself from you is probably the best tact to take until he can make heads or tails as to what he's doing wrong and what he is supposed to be doing to avoid your displeasure Wink

    Gina H.
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  • 11-05-2007 11:46 AM In reply to rwbeagles

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    rwbeagles:

    No expert here but I can definitely say the muzzle has likely caused the aggression to escalate. Dogs do not understand things the way people do...he likely has NO idea why you are putting that thing on him and has decided that defending himself from you is probably the best tact to take until he can make heads or tails as to what he's doing wrong and what he is supposed to be doing to avoid your displeasure Wink

    Well said Gina I completely agree.

    Where on earth did you learn that putting a muzzle on is a form of discipline?   A muzzle is a tool, and just like any other tool there are proper uses of this tool.  Using it as discipline is not a proper use. 

     

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  • 11-05-2007 12:07 PM In reply to kiewi

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    Deegan is our 2 yr old beagle/jack russell, neutered. We've had him since he was 5 months old. His "discipline" consists mainly of wearing his muzzle for about 5 minutes, which he absolutely hates -- we're not sure why but it works well.

    If he hates his muzzle, it's probably because you didn't understand how to properly acclimate him to wearing one.  A muzzle should not be perceived as punishment by the dog, just as "clothing".  This link could prove helpful if you want to re-train him to like the muzzle: http://bcrescuetexas.org/Training/ATM_Desensitization_muzzle.pdf

    He gets his muzzle when he steals our other dog's food, steals our food, gets into the garbage, or barks uncontrollably.

    You might have more success if you manage his environment more appropriately.  Don't let him "practice" behavior you don't like. Feed the dogs separately.  Keep your garbage in a secure place, and grab a copy of "The Bark Stops Here" (dogwise.com)  Don't engage in yelling at him to stop barking - that's just a duet (and you got a Beagle/JRT why LOL?).  Instead,  try clicker training - reward him once he stops barking on his own.  Have a look at this: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1125

    He definitely exhibits alpha behavior, normally playing with the biggest of the big dogs at the dog park and sometimes picks on smaller dogs or "weaker" dogs if given the chance. He does however give in to our other dog Mandy, a spayed mini dachschund/beagle mix, even though she is smaller and calmer than him. He lets her win mostly when they rough house.

    It sounds like he is pretty normal, except for any bullying of other dogs, which you should discourageMany leader dogs are calm, like Mandy.  So, I am not surprised that he would give in to her.

    His first display of aggression I can remember was one time he was in trouble, don't remember for what, several months back. I went to reach for him to put his muzzle on and he bolted upstairs. When I reached for him a second time he beared his teeth at me, growled, and barked at me. It was something I'd never seen him do to me and though he's only 22 lbs, it made me pull back. I didn't know what to do so I told him "no" and put him in his crate for a time out.

    "No" means very little to dogs.  I think Gina is right in her assessment that your dog is defending himself against you placing the hated muzzle on, which you have done repeatedly as punishment, rather than as a simple way to keep him and others safe.  I disagree that your dog is "alpha".  I think he's just a dog that has no idea what is expected of him, so has taken matters in to his own paws.

    More recently, we just moved in to a new house a little over a week ago. Last week when the cable guy came out Deegan barked at him like he usually does when a stranger comes in. It didn't seem like an aggressive act, just Deegan's normal loud barking. The guy put down his hand to say hello. Deegan would normally be fine with this, he's very curiuos and friendly, but not this time! He bit his hand. I can kind of see why this happened though since you would never stick you hand in a much bigger dog's face but it still surprised me though because Deegan has never behaved this way.

    You said he is two.  He is now an adult.  While he might have responded differently as a pup, he may have perceived this guy looming over him as a threat, and responded by telling him to get lost.  Not appropriate, but understandable.  Many dogs do things they would never have done before after a move.  For example, it's common for dogs to forget their housetraining skills in a new location.

    Over the weekend we were all sitting on the couch watching tv, myself, my boyfriend, and our 2 dogs and cuddling for quite some time. When Brian got up for a second and came back, Deegan was in his way so he told him "down." Deegan didn't budge and Brian repeated, "down!" When Deegan still didn't move, Brian reached out to pick him and move him but when he did, Deegan bit his hand. Again, not being sure what to do, we put him in his crate in a quiet, dark room for a time out.

    You need to change the dynamic in your home and start thinking "benevolent leadership", & NILIF, rather than punishment.  Have him wear a drag line (leash) in the house, and when he is somewhere you don't want him to be, gently coax him off, but then reward him for doing as you ask. 

     I am a little concerned about Deegan's behavior. I know he's an alpha and we try to keep him in line by doing things such as making him wait to enter a door behind us, he's not allowed on our bed, he must sit and stay before he gets his food, etc. He's been through obedience school too. I am not sure why he's starting to bite though but I really want to stop this immediately. He's always been very sweet and the friendliest dog. What is the cause for this behavior and if he does bite someone what do we do afterward to make him know that this is not okay behavior

    Don't wait until he bites someone!!!  If you are concerned enough to ask that question, invest the money in a qualified behaviorist to help you with some protocols to alter the behavior you don't like.  This is where to find one: http://www.animalbehavior.org/

    Dogs can guard space, just as they guard food:
    http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/articles/resource-guarding/

     

     

     

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  • 11-05-2007 12:13 PM In reply to Xerxes

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    putting a muzzle on a dog is a totally inappropriate and ineffective method of "disciplining" a dog. In order for a "punishment" to work it has to be inflicted within seconds of the offense-- he has no idea why you are putting the muzzle on him and figures you're just a maniac attacking him for no reason. Of course he's going to bite you.

    Let's see. Stealing your other dogs food: dogs should always be fed separately.

    Stealing YOUR food: why do you leave it out when he is unsupervised? ditto the garbage.

    as to the biting when forcibly removed from furniture, that's a very normal dog behavior called resource guarding. Best to simply never do it. Work instead on getting him to happily jump down on command- use rewards.

    None of his behaviors sound like "alpha" problems. They sound like normal dog behavior in a not-very-well trained or supervised dog of terrier/hound ancestry who thinks his owners are unpredictable maniacs who go around attacking him for no reason. How about enrolling in another obedience class or a fun tricks class? The relationship between dog and humans needs to develop lines of communication and trust.

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  • 11-05-2007 2:20 PM In reply to kiewi

    • firedogk9
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    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    As most of you know me by now, I don't agree with alot of the responses to this thread, LOL

    But I do agree that the muzzle should not be used as punishment.

    kiewi:
    he steals our other dog's food, steals our food, gets into the garbage

     

    I do not believe in ignoring problems like these.  There is no reason why you should have to feed your dogs separately, put up the garbage can, or your food!  That is crazy.  Dogs should be taught to leave things alone that don't belong to them.  What he needs is training to teach him that, not avoidance of the issue. 

    He needs to be taught the command "leave it".  I actually set my dogs up for this training exercise, and yes, that is what it is, a training exercise.  I usually do this by putting a plate of food on the coffee table within the dogs reach, if the dog approaches, I give a negative verbal sound "Aaank",  to get their attention, followed by the command "leave it".  If the dog complies, the there is lots of praise and treats.  If not, that is immediately followed up with a squirt of water from my squirt bottle directly in the face, followed by the the "leave it" command.  If your dog is a tougher nut to crack, so to speak, I will then use a leash correction, but it usually never takes that much for most dogs.  I transfer this over to feeding times with the dogs.  The same basic method is used.

    I also use the squirt bottle for the barking,  I use the command "knock it off".

    I would agree that different behaviors can arise from a move.

    I can tell you that aggression such as this is definitely not tolerated in my household and shouldn't be accepted in any!!  Growling, snapping, or biting is not acceptable.  I would have him leashed, give him the command "off", and if he didn't immediately get off, I would make him get off.  Don't repeat the command or give him time to think about it.  You do not need to jerk him off, just react quickly in removing him so he will understand that when you say "off" it means NOW.

    kiewi:
    making him wait to enter a door behind us, he's not allowed on our bed, he must sit and stay before he gets his food, etc. He's been through obedience school

     

    These are all very good things!  I feel like he is suffering from a lack of leadership in your household.  Yes, I believe in the Pack Theory.  The 2 of you are at the top, always.  That doesn't mean you  have to be mean, hit or otherwise hurt your dog.  It means taking care of the household.  Every dog that comes through my household learns the rules of the house. 

    If you have any questions about this or anything else, please feel free to contact me!  Best of luck to you!

    Dawn

    www.avatark9.com
    It is only a bite if you have to get stitches, otherwise it is just a kiss!!

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  • 11-05-2007 2:34 PM In reply to kiewi

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    BTW to the OP, as to the food things...sounds like he is VERY food motivated...which is GREAT, makes for easy training a lot of the time. I advise lots of food rewards, positivity, and patience and very little confrontation. Beagles in particular will shut down quickly if they become intimidated. Food keeps them up and happy and open to learning. I had to relearn this as I came from a larger, more independant breed when I got into Beagles. I had to retrain my hand to be not so heavy figuratively speaking...lol. Can be done tho!

    I don't leave food laying around or my trash open here...I have kids and they are just as likely to get into both as the dogs...just easier to put things where they belong when you're done/not using them..including your food and plates, and trash etc. I don't allow begging...they are crated during set mealtimes and all know the "Off" commands for when we're snacking etc, and my kiddos know how to use it as well.

    Gina H.
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  • 11-05-2007 2:43 PM In reply to kiewi

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    I agree with what the others have stated. Putting a muzzle on a dog for 'discipline' doesn't do anything but confuse and upset the dog. Nor is putting him in his crate a good idea; he'll learn that the crate is a punishment place, not a safe den for him.

    If this behavior is new, then he should be seen by his vet pronto; he may have a medical problem that's causing him to be cranky. As far as the biting of the cable guy, you just moved into a new house - which can be pretty stressful on animals; if the dog was barking the guy should NOT have put his hand out to him in the first place...I'd probably have nipped him too ;) As far as the 'down' off the couch...does your dog know the commands for sit, down, etc.? If he's told 'down' meaning to lie down on the floor, then when he's on the couch and told 'down' he's going to lie on the couch and not move...so he's doing what he's supposed to when told 'down' - only he's getting punished for it...Never use the same word for different 'commands'...if you want him off the couch, teach him 'off'...and don't crate him in a dark room as a 'time-out'...he's going to end up hating his crate, and that's not what you want.

    If he's stealing the other dog's food, stealing your food, getting into the garbage - that's not his fault; it's yours for not controlling his environment better. You need to feed the dogs in separate areas; the food goes down for 20 minutes and what's not eaten gets taken away. You need to put the garbage somewhere he can't get into it; to use a can with a lid he can't open...dogs love the smell of garbage. If you're leaving food on the table (especially a low one like a coffee table) you're asking a dog to do the impossible...how many humans can pass up food just sitting there?

    As the human, it's up to us to control our dog's environment so that they can succeed - and not get into things that they shouldn't, but that they don't know they shouldn't...because a dog doesn't understand English. For example, if you tell him 'bad dog' (or muzzle him) for getting into the garbage, he doesn't know that's why you're mad (especially when it's done well after the fact)...even if his face looks like he's 'quilty'...all he knows is that he's going to get yelled at (and muzzled). He's now associating his owner with bad things...not positive, good ones. Enrolling him and the rest of those in the house in a dog obedience class is a good idea; go to one that has an experienced and reputable trainer/behaviorist teaching it...and make sure that all people in the household go to the training class and learn how to train him the same way, consistently, positively, and with patience. If everyone in the home tells him things in different ways, he'll get confused and won't know what to do.

    ~ MaryAnn
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  • 11-05-2007 2:44 PM In reply to firedogk9

    • houndlove
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    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    You don't have to throw a dog in to the deep end with those things though. It's not a choice between ignore and set the dog up for total failure by leaving tempting things all over the place all the time and then punishing after the fact.

    Conrad is a known resource-guarder from other dogs. So when we brought a new dog into the family, we started working on this problem slowly, carefully, making it easy for him to succeed. We started feeding them in different rooms, just so he could get used to the very idea of another dog sharing his space before we started giving him the PhD dissertation on eating right next to another dog. Then once they got more comfy with one another, we started feeding them on opposite sides of a large room, with both I and my husband supervising. Slowly, over time, we moved their bowls closer and closer together, and kept up the supervision. We never had to punish Conrad for guarding because by the time we got the bowls close enough for him to feel like he had to guard, he'd realized that he did not have to, that this new upstart was not going to be allowed to take his food and that if he just calmly tucked in and ate his all would be well. We now feed them side-by-side and supervision is not necessary. I release them to eat and walk away. We took a similar approach to toys and chewies. At first, no playing with toys or chewies in the same room--we separated them for that. Then we allowed them in the same room, but set them up on opposite sides. We did not leave any toys on the floor randomly just around the house. Toys only came out when we were there to actively supervise. Conrad had a few things to say to Marlowe about the toys but they were well within his rights to say them and the point got taken by Marlowe. Nowadays I can leave things around and the boys are largely self-policing about them. I haven't had to step in in quite some time.

    With human food and the garbage...you can't expect a dog to understand right off the bat that these things are off-limits. I like to take an approach of creating good habits by removing the possibility of experiencing how fabulous both these things are for a period of time long enough that the dog never develops the habit of going to them and instead develops alternate habits around the same context. If the habit has already been created, it takes time for these things to just go away completely for the dog to get back to a place where he's sort of forgotten how fabulously self-rewarding both of these items are. That means, when I'm around to supervise, correct and redirect, I can leave the items out, but at all other times, they go away. We are not ready for me to leave the room with my dinner plate on the table until we've already had many many training sessions of what dogs do when food is on the table (lay down, do not beg, do not get up on the table, do not get nosey with the table--there is nothing on the table for dogs, move along, nothing to see here). Likewise with the garbage. I'm not going to leave it out in the kitchen from day 1 and go about my daily business until we've had MANY opportunities to redirect from the garbage. Just one trip into the garbage is going to make a huge impact on a dog: "OH MY GOSH! THAT THING IS A GOLD MINE! I WILL RETURN TO IT AS MUCH AS I CAN GET AWAY WITH!" So I prevent the dog from ever really finding out what amazing stuff is in there and that it's possible for dogs to extract the good stuff by supervising their interactions with it closely, and any time I can't do that, I put it away. With our most recent dog, who we've now had for a year and a half, he was not alone with the garbage can for a good 6-9 months. At this point however, he's quite trustworthy with it and actually doesn't even acknowledge it's existence even though it's right there front and center in the kitchen.
     

    Cressida and her best friends:

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  • 11-05-2007 3:34 PM In reply to kiewi

    • schleide
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    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    I fall somewhere between the 2 camps of responses... 

    First, I agree with everyone else that the muzzle should not be used as a form of punishment/discipline - you perceive it as "working" because Deegan can't do what you don't want him to do with it on, but it is not teaching the lesson you hope to be teaching.  It also may have taught him that crazy humans will sometimes come at him for no reason and do something very unpleasant to him - which may be why he is suddenly reacting to hands reaching towards him... 

    Some responses have indicated that you should manage around your issues - put the garbage away, don't eat in front of Deegan - put him in another room when people come in etc., have Deegan where a drag line so that you can lead him away from situations where he could get into trouble...  And other(s) have told you to correct the behaviors you don't like. 

    I would go with a combination.  I would manage the situation so that Deegan cannot misbehave unless you are right there to correct.  The type of correction you use is up to you.  I like a shake can (we use a tupperware with some coins), but probably a squirt bottle works the same.  For example - garbage is out only when you are there to watch to make sure Deegan does not touch it.  If he does, AS SOON AS HE DOES, shake the can - that should startle Deegan away from the garbage...  After a couple times, he should leave the garbage (unless you leave it out when you are not there to catch him and he gets in there to get it uncorrected - that will undo everything you have done).  To me, teaching a "leave it" is not really helpful in that particular instance, at least with my dog for whom leave it is specific to the exact item I am talking about at the exact time I say "leave it".  I would also have him wear a drag line so that you don't have to reach towards him to remove him from the couch or from wherever.  That is in addition to teaching Deegan to "off."  Invite him up and then tell him off (and guide him off with the drag line) - as soon as he is off, praise and reward...  Once Deegan knows "off" (and I mean you are sure he knows it - at least a month or two of consistent work on it), would I correct Deegan for not getting off when you told him to - he would still be on a line and I would give a verbal or leash correction (depends on your dog and your feelings on the issue) for not getting off when you told him to.  Always, after I correct a behvior, I offer the dog an alternative so that they end up doing something right.  In this case, once off, I would immediately give a "down command" and then praise for nicely laying on the floor by my feet.  Only when "off" is totally solid would I ever allow Deegan on furniture without dragging a leash. 

    I want my dog to be able to sit in the room with us while we are eating, I also do not want to be bothered by dogs while I am eating.  I do not believe those things need to be mutually exclusive.  You can teach Deegan appropriate behavior around your eating time or couch time or whatever - in our house, if Wesley is laying quietly, he can be wherever he wants while we are eating or watching TV.  If he decides he would like to be a nuisance, he is corrected with a verbal correction (we use EH!) and then he is sent to lay on his dog bed, in the same room (not as a punishment, rather as the appropriate alternative to begging).  Wherever he is laying while we are eating, that is great, if he is quiet through the meal, he gets a scrap afterwards. 

     

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  • 11-05-2007 4:53 PM In reply to kiewi

    • kiewi
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    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

     

    Thanks for all the replies. I had no idea that his muzzle was viewed such a bad thing. It doesn't hurt him, it's actually 1 size too big, and we're not trying to be cruel with it. We were trying to stop him from barking one day and we bought it and noticed that with it on, he completely calms down. He figured out that he could still bark with it on though so we started using it for a few minor issues we wanted to correct. And he has learned to stay out of Mandy's food (until we moved) from it. He is incredibly smart and I am confident he DOES know what his muzzle means since we only use it for a few things. That's my own personal opinion, whether other people may see that as right or wrong, that's okay. We've tried using a penny can for certain things which he didn't mind at all. Yes we went through clicker training and we do use that method. Getting him to do things with the clicker is not the problem, it's getting him NOT to do things.

    Secondly, it's not like I leave food and garbage out for him to find! Why does everyone jump to that conclusion? He's recently figured out how to jump up on top of the stove to steal food. I'm still adjusting to Deegan-proofing my kitchen. Another time I was standing there holding a piece of food and Deegan jumped up and snatched it from my hand. The incidents are few and far between but nonetheless, unacceptable. I normally NEVER use his crate as punishment because that is his safe place. Just the couple times he has bitten someone, I really wasn't sure what to do. I know to calm him down, I've been told to put him in his crate in a quiet place so that's all I could think of at the time.

    As I mentioned we normally seldom use his muzzle on him, just for a few things like getting up on the counter to steal food or garbage. We DO use "down" a lot with him. It's never more than just a command, a signal for him to get down off something. All my boyfriend did last night was tell him down and then try to pick him up. I was sitting right there. There was no yelling or sudden/agressive movements. There was no force. He went to pick Deegan up. Why do people assume we yelled and used force anyway? He is very familiar with the command and we didn't see any warning signs or indication that Deegan didn't want to be touched or would snap. "Down" needs to be enforced, biting or not.

    Of course we always discourage him from picking on other dogs and we use the command "leave it". We've used the squirt gun both with water and with a vinegar mix and that is ineffective. The obedience trainer even couldn't get it to make him pay attention in class with it. He is VERY food motivated, yes!!! We were amazed the first time he was able to jump up on the counter from the floor. He figured out how to open our old garbage can be stepping on the button on bottom so we have since moved it under the sink. Someone also asked about his commands--he knows tons and we practice a bit every day: Sit, stay, all done (with the command), leave it, roll over, shake (hands/paws), down, go in your crate (for when we leave for work), go in your bed (his doggie bed), dog park, outside, house, potty, up, etc....

    I NEVER "punish" Deegan for something I didn't see him do right then and there and if I do muzzle him (which I know most of you don't agree with!) it's only for a few minutes. I'm a bit surprised at some of the responses I've read to be honest. No one really said what to do if he does bite again though. Obviously the biting is a very unwanted response and we will try and prevent it but what if he does do it again?

    Thank you again for all of your responses. I would appreciate if there are answers with suggestions on how to fix the biting behavior and if it does happen what to do about it.

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  • 11-05-2007 5:12 PM In reply to kiewi

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    We did give you suggestions...stop using the muzzle to punish and instead work on the entire relationship with the dog. If he is fearful of a muzzle being put on or being punished in some way when you approach him....well there ya go.

    Several suggestions were actually given...but you seem to be focusing on defending the muzzle thing, when you don't really need to. Please be open to ideas OTHER than a muzzle...because it's pretty obvious to me that it's part of the problem...

    The way some use rolled up newspapers or others use yelling...same thing. Confusion...leading to defensiveness, for the dog...and frustration for the owner...we do see this a lot on this forum and we do actually want to help you out.

    If I were you I'd enroll in an obedience class to work on the basic relationship and as others have stated...use a leash inside the house to minimize confrontations over resources. Make sure his exercise is what it should be...and have him vetted to eliminate any issues with pain or problems that may cause aggressive behavior.

    There is no "off switch" here...it's about the entire relationship and how there is no communication from you to your dog on what he SHOULD be doing...only consequences that he probably doesn't even understand.

    Gina H.
    dog.community Moderator


    "Carne Asada, is not a crime."

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  • 11-05-2007 5:48 PM In reply to rwbeagles

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    I agree with you completely, Gina.   To the OP, obviously your method of discipline is not working as the behavior is escalating.  I believe everyone offered really good alternatives for you to try.  The point is not to get the dog to the point of biting someone.  I didn't really see anyone picking on you for yelling, but if they did it's because in your original post you said your boyfriend told the dog "down."  Then when the dog didn't get down, you said he said "down!" (which implies a forceful if not yelling tone) and then went to pick the dog up.  The dog, feeling threatened, bit him.  Better would be to have the leash on him, say "down" and if he doesn't get down, use the leash to lead him down, then reward him with a treat. 

     The only way to success is to set your dog up for success.  It takes a lot of commitment, but it can be done.  My mom has 7 dogs - all rescues.  She doesn't leave food on the counters.  If she does and one of them takes it she just says shame on her and moves on.  Same thing with the garbage.  For the most part the dogs are near perfect in their behavior, but they aren't robots and they are just as prone to temptation as humans are. 

     

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  • 11-05-2007 6:00 PM In reply to kiewi

    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    If you have had this dog since he was five months old, and he is still biting you, what you have been doing has not been working, right?  So, stop doing it.  Really - forget about thinking how to get him to STOP doing things.  Instead, think about teaching him to do alternative behaviors to the ones you don't want.  At age 2, he is at the perfect age for a refresher obedience class.  Also, the reason he bites is important.  If it's to resist getting off the couch, don't test him further.  Instead, learn to teach him to go up and get off on command.  I gave you the link to Ahimsa for a reason, and that was it.

    If he is getting into the trash, the way you teach him that it is counterproductive is to keep it secured.  After a while, why would he waste his time tipping trash cans if nothing ever falls out?  You can resort to "booby traps" to prevent this, but you should never do anything that creates an association in his mind between you and the booby trap.  There is an inherent danger that some dogs will, instead of learning not to countersurf, be afraid to ever go in the kitchen again.  That's why I never recommend it as a first choice for this problem.  What a smart dog, learning to push the floor pedal, though.  OMG, a food motivated smart dog - what could be better from a training perspective????

    Big Smile


     

    Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association
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    AKC CGC Evaluator #3669
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    Sioux, CGC, TDInc.
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    Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19
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    "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George

    "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz



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  • 11-05-2007 6:25 PM In reply to spiritdogs

    • Dog_ma
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-25-2007
    • San Diego County, California
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    Re: beagle/jack russell biting when disciplined

    There have been many excellent things said, but I would like to break into down into this simple idea:

    Your dog is biting you because he thinks he needs to defend himself.

    How do you get him to stop biting? Stop scaring him. Build trust. Stop punishing him, period.  Zero punishments. Do not try and physically force him into anything. Leash or lure.

    If he bites again, take a newspaper and whack yourself on the head as a reminder not to scare the dog. Big Smile



    "Are you a dog trainer?"
    "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night."
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