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AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

Last post 10-25-2007 9:30 AM by dgriego. 11 replies.
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  • 10-24-2007 1:01 PM

    • lostcoyote
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    AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    at what point does dog training become anal retentive behavior in humans?

     

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  • 10-24-2007 1:51 PM In reply to lostcoyote

    • dgriego
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    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

     

    I hesitate to try on this one.

    From a definition: The term is often used in a derogatory sense to describe a person with such attention to detail that the obsession becomes an annoyance to others, and can be carried out to the detriment of the so-called anal-retentive person."

     So my assumption would be that you are anal-retentive when you become obsessed with a method to the point that you push it on everyone and refuse to accept that other alternatives might be just as good or better than the one you are pushing?

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  • 10-24-2007 1:55 PM In reply to lostcoyote

    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    lostcoyote:

    at what point does dog training become anal retentive behavior in humans?

     

     

     

    Simple.  When you disagree with the way they do it.  Devil 

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  • 10-24-2007 2:21 PM In reply to spiritdogs

    • lostcoyote
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    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    by golly sd, i think you're right :)

     

    which makes the question entirely subjective.

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  • 10-24-2007 2:25 PM In reply to dgriego

    • lostcoyote
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    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    dg: "So my assumption would be that you are anal-retentive when you become obsessed with a method to the point that you push it on everyone and refuse to accept that other alternatives might be just as good or better than the one you are pushing?"

     

    do you think it just basically stems from an underlying insecurity?

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  • 10-24-2007 2:55 PM In reply to lostcoyote

    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    lostcoyote:

    at what point does dog training become anal retentive behavior in humans?
     

    When it becomes more for the benefit of the human than the benefit of the dog?

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  • 10-24-2007 3:11 PM In reply to lostcoyote

    • Ixas_girl
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    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    Here are some interesting comments from Donna Haraway, author of The Companion Species Manifesto: Dogs, People, and Significant Otherness.

    These comments are from her lecture Birth of the Kennel:

    I found fascinating cross talk and interaction between different communities of expertise, usually called "scientific" and "lay", such as challenges to each others’ standards of evidence, what counts as a fact, is a "line" a "population", the way words appear to mean the same thing but don’t as you watch them in practice, the way the word "population" means different things to different users. At the list site all of it is truly up for grabs in the interesting ways that net sociality is being studied in several domains. We see contestations of what counts as a fact, debates about standards of evidence. What kind of credibility is managed by whom? Who can manage who else’s credibility? What kinds of posts get picked up and by whom? You can watch, as other people who have done quasi-ethnographic work on net sociality, the emergence of discursive communities of considerable complexity over a period of time.

    I want to end with another set of illustrations from contemporary companion species culture, to pay attention to what I’m calling "Alpha Bi**** On-Line." It is a term of great respect to call someone an "alpha bi***" in the dog world. A human being of any of the available genders can become an alpha bi***, although I think there is a greater access to that label of persons of the female persuasion. Truly the dog world is full of formidable women, I’ve never felt so unable to cope in the face of these quite scary people. I dare a dog to misbehave in the presence of these women. The cultures I have been looking at, much to my surprise, have been heavily populated by women over fifty. A very interesting age-gender breakdown, plenty of other people there, but there’s a strong kind of leadership core by women of certain age, which I’m pleased by because that is not typical of communities of authoritative practice that we’re used to describing.


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  • 10-24-2007 3:46 PM In reply to Ixas_girl

    • lostcoyote
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    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    "Truly the dog world is full of formidable women, I’ve never felt so unable to cope in the face of these quite scary people. I dare a dog to misbehave in the presence of these women. The cultures I have been looking at, much to my surprise, have been heavily populated by women over fifty. A very interesting age-gender breakdown, plenty of other people there, but there’s a strong kind of leadership core by women of certain age, which I’m pleased by because that is not typical of communities of authoritative practice that we’re used to describing."

     

    i have noted that awhile back, not just here but on other dog websites that have good volume of inhabitants, that a larger percentage of the people who post are women. i have never ascertained an age thing... but i do wonder why so many more of the people who post on dog forums are women then men?

    getting back to AR behavior, i have wondered while making the OP whether or not i am AR when it comes to walking my dogs? i started to take a ski pole with me to teach them to walk behind me - and it worked..... but i also found the pole useful, on occasion, to block other dogs who have their tails stuck straight up in the air (an assertion signal) from charging my own dogs (as well as preventing my dogs from reciprocating because they started to pick up that charged energy off the other dogs)...... and so now, i ALWAYS take the pole.... is that being AR?.

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  • 10-24-2007 4:07 PM In reply to Ixas_girl

    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    Ixas_girl:
    I dare a dog to misbehave in the presence of these women.
     

    LOL That's very interesting! I wear the title with pride! Stick out tongue 

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  • 10-24-2007 4:45 PM In reply to FourIsCompany

    • Ixas_girl
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    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    FourIsCompany:
    I wear the title with pride! Stick out tongue 

     

     

    Big Smile  LOL, Carla! Which title, Anal Retentive or Alpha Bi*** Wink heehee! Seriously, either way, you definitely are a formidable woman!


  •  ... and back to topic ... I find that the more I "work" my dog, the more AR I have to be. However, since I can be a PITA control freak, I try to keep a lid on it. Luckily, my relationship with my dog hasn't succumbed to that tendency, "too much"! Heh.

    When Ixa first came into my life, I took up obedience, agility, sheepherding, freestyle, pack leadership, as well as copious quantities of reading and discussion list participation. I think being a bit AR then was great, to get my newbie-self up to speed. I think that backing off that, now, is great, since I've developed much "second nature" and don't need to be "on" like that all the time anymore. Now I trust myself and I trust Ixa, so we can be more relaxed, more spontaneous, more at ease.

  • http://dogandgirl.blogspot.com/









    You're Good Enough, You're Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like You!
    ~ Stuart Smalley






    ~~~




    Mary Poppins: I never explain anything.


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  • 10-24-2007 6:57 PM In reply to lostcoyote

    • ron2
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    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    lostcoyote:
    but i also found the pole useful, on occasion, to block other dogs who have their tails stuck straight up in the air (an assertion signal) from charging my own dogs (as well as preventing my dogs from reciprocating because they started to pick up that charged energy off the other dogs)...... and so now, i ALWAYS take the pole.... is that being AR?.

     

    No. It sounds like habit. And I don't think it's neurotic to have a way to ward off potentially challenging dogs.

    AR is a term coined by Freud. Most of his work has been discredited, no to mention that he was a misogynistic cocaine addict. That being said, AR would be a neurotic behavior.

    Also, I don't think it's AR to have certain standards or expectations that must always be met. Or, if it is, it might be a good thing. I think it's great to have an AR pilot checking every little thing before take off.

    The way you treat your dog in this life determines your place in heaven. - chukchi proverb


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  • 10-25-2007 9:30 AM In reply to lostcoyote

    • dgriego
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    Re: AR behavior in humans in relation to their dogs

    lostcoyote:

    do you think it just basically stems from an underlying insecurity?

     insecurity, stubborness, pride? I think it can be either or all when applied to dog training.

     

     As for Lost's ski pole being AR, I don't think so. I think it becomes so if you begin to depend on it for everything, begin to carry it around the house and begin to start telling everyone else that they must get a ski pole and use it as you do or else their training will be lacking.

    BTW I have taken a walking stick out the last couple of walks. I am not using it in the same way, since my dogs range further out when loose in the field (at least Gunnar does) but it was great for giving direction changes. While walking out to the mesa I also tried swinging it out to the side to help keep the dogs in position. Alas I am not the most graceful person when given a big stick, and I conked poor Gunnar in the head with it. Needless to say it is good he is very forgiving, but I will be using it for snakes and coyotes and gicing direction changes when Gunnar is ranging out for birds.

    Owned by:
    Gunnar the Bee Eating Vizsla and
    Hektor the Pig Dawg Dogo Argentino

    "I had learned not to care. I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though. ..." -- Barack Obama
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