Gesture Eating

• 10-16-2007 6:28 PM

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,739 Points 10

  Gesture Eating Reply Contact Have you ever done this?  Do you do it?  Do you think it makes a difference?  How did you do it - eat a meal before you fed the dog(s)?  Or just a snack, almost like a ritual?  Have you ever physically eaten something out of the dogs bowl?  Where does this idea come from, what/who inspired you to try it?  What is the logic behind it?  Is it harmful, effective or does it have no effect whatsoever?  "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 10-16-2007 6:50 PM

  In reply to Chuffy

  FourIsCompany Joined on 07-30-2007 Posts 4,738 Points 1,135

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact What??? I've never heard of this. I can safely say that I've never eaten anything out of the dog's bowl. Eeeww! If everything else is good in the pack, I don't think it matters. We eat at all hours from 5 to 8 and the dogs eat anywhere from 4 to 6:30, so it just depends what what else is going on whether they eat first or we eat first. I think the idea comes from the wolf pack. The more dominant wolves get to eat first. Right?  IF I were having "dominance" issues, I might make sure they saw me eat before they ate, but as it is, we close them out of the living room and eat in there. They always seem to get rowdy about the time we eat. LSTM (Laughing Silently to Myself) Click Daily to Give Free Food and Care to Animals: http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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• 10-16-2007 6:55 PM

  In reply to FourIsCompany

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,739 Points 10

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact I think it was Victoria Stilwell on It's me or the Dog, she put cornflakes in the (thoroughly clean) dog bowl and had the owners eat it in front of the dog.  It made me giggle a bit actually.  I have heard the idea from others as well and wondered what you guys all thought. "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 10-16-2007 7:03 PM

  In reply to Chuffy

  lostcoyote Joined on 07-19-2007 that hill over there Posts 945 Points 200	Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact Only in America???...... do we come up with these ~s~t~r~a~n~g~e~ ideas ??
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• 10-16-2007 7:14 PM

  In reply to lostcoyote

  glenmar Joined on 09-10-2007 Northwestern Michigan Posts 11,701 Points 405

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact I've heard this one too.....and I think it might be suggested for a dog with resource guarding issues?  Not sure. In my house we eat when we are ready.....sometimes before the dogs, often after.  Yet I can leave my lunch on my desk and walk away and not one of the six dogs will touch it.  When it comes to food, if it's not in THEIR bowl, it's mine. A house without fur is not a home. Glenda

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• 10-16-2007 7:18 PM

  In reply to Chuffy

  Kim_MacMillan Joined on 11-21-2006 Eastern Canada Posts 1,105 Points 200

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact *G* This is another one of those things that always makes me laugh, stemming back to the dominance mentality of "you must eat before your dog". As for what effect it might have, the only effect it would have is setting a human's mind at ease that they have now placed themselves in the "leadership" position. I'm sure the dogs don't much care whether or not the person eats, and I'm not ever sure they notice it while they're waiting for their own food. It's written in a lot of places, but the person that comes to mind with this very term is Jan Fennell and the Dog Listener. She advocates gesture eating to establish leadership to your dog as a form of Amichien Bonding. Here the dogs almost always eat before we do. And there are times they eat when we don't. And there are times when I eat when they don't. If I had to concern myself with eating something every time the dog did, I'd be one heckuva fat lady.

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• 10-16-2007 7:32 PM

  In reply to lostcoyote

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,739 Points 10

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact lostcoyote: Only in America???...... do we come up with these ~s~t~r~a~n~g~e~ ideas ?? Ms Stilwell and Jan Fennell are both English!  Two biggest advocates of this technique that I can think of.  If I remember correctly, Jan Fennell advised just eating a small snack before putting the dogs food down, like 1 biscuit or cracker.... and her stuff IS based on the wolf pack.  While I think anything dog-related based on wolves is fundamentally flawed, I can't see that this would ever do any harm... and if an owner WANTS to "prove" something to the dog at mealtime, I would far rather they did that than take the dog's bowl away...... "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 10-16-2007 7:44 PM

  In reply to Chuffy

  lostcoyote Joined on 07-19-2007 that hill over there Posts 945 Points 200

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact Ms Stilwell and Jan Fennell are both English! okay, thanks for the punishment, ooops, i mean correction. me still thinks it's a ~S~T~R~A~N~G~E~ idea....... what will these folks think of next? snack by human - click - put food dish down for dog? (setting the joking aside.... an alpha eats first in a wolf pack. dogs in a human inhabited household is not a wolf pack - their argument is flawed)

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• 10-16-2007 7:51 PM

  In reply to lostcoyote

  Kim_MacMillan Joined on 11-21-2006 Eastern Canada Posts 1,105 Points 200

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact lostcoyote: an alpha eats first in a wolf pack. Hmm, that's strange, because from the wolf research I know, that's flawed as well. :-) If food is abundant, often the pups get to eat first, or the dam eats to take back to the den. If food is VERY abundant, say, a bison or something, then many of them, if not all, eat at once. If an animal catches a rabbit (they don't tend to pack hunt things like rabbits, mice, rats, etc), the animal that caught it has first dibs, regardless of place within the pack.

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• 10-16-2007 8:11 PM

  In reply to Kim_MacMillan

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,739 Points 10

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact Lost - I think its strange too!  Not sure why anyone would be clicking just because they have eaten a biscuit in front of a dog and I have never heard of the clicker being used in that context to be honest. Kim - In addition to these points, when we feed our dogs we don't do so round a "kill".  We put a dish of food down.  Gesture eating seems to me to be symbolic more than anthing else and I am not sure what dogs make of symbolism. "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 10-16-2007 8:25 PM

  In reply to Chuffy

  Kim_MacMillan Joined on 11-21-2006 Eastern Canada Posts 1,105 Points 200

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact Chuffy: Gesture eating seems to me to be symbolic more than anthing else and I am not sure what dogs make of symbolism. Again, I think it holds a lot more meaning for the person than it does the dog. I don't think the dog cares who eats first. Now, if it does hold some relevance to the person, and in turn that helps the person somehow form a better relationship with their dog, so be it. Whatever silly things take people becoming better communicators. But I think they could do the same thing without the "gesture eating" if they wished.

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• 10-16-2007 8:39 PM

  In reply to Kim_MacMillan

  luvmyswissy Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 1,633 Points 25

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact   I have heard of this.  Because I have a resource guarding dog and read every piece of material out there it is mentioned on many levels.  It is suppose to replicate the "Alpha" eating first.  Eat a sandwich in front of the dog before giving him his own bowl or eat a piece of cheese before giving him his own bowl, etc.  I never used it in my training but I will tell you that it is always on my mind.  If I am ever going to give River a bite of anything I am eating, I subconsciously will bite it first before giving it to him.  Does it reinforce my status, who knows!  But I figure any type of reinforcement can’t hurt One of the behaviorists I hired suggested that my son handle and spit into my dog’s food bowl prior to use feeding him.  I tried this once and we all laughed our asses off when my son kept spitting all over himself trying to spit in the bowl.   This was suppose to make River believe by smelling my sons scent and tasting his spit that the child ate on it first and now has given it up to the dog.  Again, who knows if that really does anything..  All I know is that for us - we stopped it before we started it.  It seemed really silly.  If I may add, the behaviorist was excellent and right on in my opinion on everything else he showed and taught us.  This was weird additives that he even said were weird but would help.

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• 10-16-2007 8:43 PM

  In reply to Kim_MacMillan

  lostcoyote Joined on 07-19-2007 that hill over there Posts 945 Points 200

  Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact If food is abundant, often the pups get to eat first, or the dam eats to take back to the den. If food is VERY abundant, say, a bison or something, then many of them, if not all, eat at once. If an animal catches a rabbit (they don't tend to pack hunt things like rabbits, mice, rats, etc), the animal that caught it has first dibs, regardless of place within the pack. thanks :) ............. the point i was attempting to make was that dogs with humans are not the same as wolf packs..... not whether alphas eat first ((under all circumstances) or not)

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• 10-16-2007 8:47 PM

  In reply to lostcoyote

  Kim_MacMillan Joined on 11-21-2006 Eastern Canada Posts 1,105 Points 200	Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact lostcoyote: but besides what was viewed as flawed in my post as the major thrust of rebuttal, the point i was attempting to make was that dogs with humans are not the same as wolf packs. No no, I agree with you there. :-) Completely. I was just pointing the other part out lest anybody misunderstand and take that as fact is all. :-)
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• 10-16-2007 8:50 PM

  In reply to Chuffy

  lostcoyote Joined on 07-19-2007 that hill over there Posts 945 Points 200	Re: Gesture Eating Reply Contact Not sure why anyone would be clicking just because they have eaten a biscuit in front of a dog and I have never heard of the clicker being used in that context to be honest. this could set a new trend into motion!
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