Forum Post

the dog whisperer - season 4

Last post 11-07-2007 8:17 PM by ron2. 126 replies.
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  • 10-06-2007 9:17 PM In reply to spiritdogs

    • dgriego
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    spiritdogs:
    So, does that mean some of his fans around here will try some of the +R stuff, too???  Then, you and Cesar can all catch up together;-)

    already have, have for a long time, have stated often that I do but because I choose to use the word dominance on occaision and the word pack leader you have never bothered to notice

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  • 10-06-2007 10:55 PM In reply to dgriego

    • lostcoyote
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    well, ya know how it goes sometimes...... like for me, on this forum..... i guess i just don't talk about it LOUD ENOUGH for them to hear because, like you, the words, leash correction or even just the word, correction gets elevated to a RED FLAG STATUS in some of their minds.............. wit respect to your other post, i think that ceasar needed to address the critics and so he included the operant cponditioning terminology...... even though he doesn't need to use the vocabulary in his own way of speaking...... i must admit, i had never heard of the terms until i came to this forum...... and i have had dogs in my life for 40 some years since childhood and never really needed those words to get our dogs to be well behaved...... it must be all those neck snapping yanks and kick em in the rear we do that makes em so calm ;)

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  • 10-06-2007 11:05 PM In reply to lostcoyote

    • dgriego
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    lostcoyote:
    it must be all those neck snapping yanks and kick em in the rear we do that makes em so calm ;)

     

     and you must not leave out the stick beatings on walks Wink

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  • 10-06-2007 11:38 PM In reply to dgriego

    • lostcoyote
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    it's a ski pole - and i jabb with it - lol
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  • 10-07-2007 7:13 AM In reply to lostcoyote

    • snownose
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    A poster mentioned "Catching Up", ya gotta love it........I think all of us here have used some kind of reward, be it praising the dog, giving the dog a good rub , playing their favorite game, or treats.......before some people make these statements, they SHOULD read posts a little better, and NOT leave out things and get stuck on some..... 

    The man has a gift and talent....I was simply amazed how fast he walked several unruly dogs that did not get along, even fought, in that episode, and once the handlers were in the mix some bad behavior picked up again, I certainly think the handler has a big influence on the behavior of the dog that can't be corrected with treats....JMO....

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  • 10-07-2007 1:05 PM In reply to lostcoyote

    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    lostcoyote:

    well, ya know how it goes sometimes...... like for me, on this forum..... i guess i just don't talk about it LOUD ENOUGH for them to hear because, like you, the words, leash correction or even just the word, correction gets elevated to a RED FLAG STATUS in some of their minds.............. wit respect to your other post, i think that ceasar needed to address the critics and so he included the operant cponditioning terminology...... even though he doesn't need to use the vocabulary in his own way of speaking...... i must admit, i had never heard of the terms until i came to this forum...... and i have had dogs in my life for 40 some years since childhood and never really needed those words to get our dogs to be well behaved...... it must be all those neck snapping yanks and kick em in the rear we do that makes em so calm ;)

     

    I understand your frustration. But it's not just on this dog board where you will see this bad behavior from a certain faction within the dog "training" community and their followers. These folks spread their emotional propaganda, misinformation, and fear -  wherever they can find a platform. I doesn't take long to spot them on any board, and notice their disruptive and negative behavior patterns towards folks who simply want to discuss, learn, and share their personal experiences. Try not to let it get to you.

    It's funny, when I was nine years old, I used social learning, leadership, direct communication, classical conditioning, and operant conditioning...I just didn't define it by the terminologies which we hear on a dog forum. I am now 51, and I'm still using all of these areas when living and working with a dog. The social learning, leadership, and direct communication is best represented by what Cesar teaches and demonstrates on his show. Suzanne Clothier also gets into this area of interaction in some of her writings.

    Personally, I've enjoyed watching The Dog Whisperer shows and seeing some exploration in the areas of social interaction which are better described in terminologies which are not defined by the operant conditioning box...although there are some folks who simply cannot think outside of it's parameters, unfortunately.

    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" Albert Einstein

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  • 10-07-2007 1:35 PM In reply to Angelique

    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    Gawd, lighten up and untwist the undies - apparently no one noticed the wink at the end of my sentence.  Apparently, we still have no sense of humor here.  Surprise

     

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  • 10-07-2007 1:37 PM In reply to spiritdogs

    • dgriego
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    spiritdogs:
    Gawd, lighten up and untwist the undies - apparently no one noticed the wink at the end of my sentence.  Apparently, we still have no sense of humor here.  Surprise

    my apologies spirit, you are correct I did not notice the wink, i do have a sense of humor but on occasion I misplace it.

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  • 10-07-2007 1:59 PM In reply to dgriego

    • ron2
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    I hope for CM to grow in understanding and breadth of knowledge but I would hope that for anyone. As for age, it means something but so does understanding. I once saw a video of Kim demonstrating some training. Judging from what I could see, she is younger than me and I can learn from her. Spiritdogs is older than me (by her own admission) and I learn from her. I can even learn some things from Ratsicles and she just turned 20, I think. I've learned from DPU and he is older than me. I have learned from Ed (Xerxes) and he is about 6 to 7 years younger than me.

    A new episode that I really liked, he didn't do hardly anything. The highlight of "nothing" was in helping Virginia Madsen and her son Jack adopt a new dog. His advice was to take the dog that fit in immediately rather than take on the challenging dog with issues. Another episode I didn't like was where he was trying to rehab an American Eskimo Dog with leash issues. It came to a point where the dog was straining and just about helicoptering itself at the end of the leash. CM wasn't suspending the dog but I felt there could be a better way to address this problem. And his intuitive descriptions were non-sequitorial, to me. Which simply means that his words did not make sense to me. Your mileage may vary. Such a discussion, however, is outside the parameters of this thread. It's primarily about his season 4 and I thought I could describe some of my observations of the season in question.

     

     

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  • 10-07-2007 2:40 PM In reply to spiritdogs

    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    spiritdogs:
    apparently no one noticed the wink at the end of my sentence.
     

    And a wink means what? Can we just insult people and then place a wink behind it and that makes it OK?

    What I do notice is that you haven't been participating in this thread AT ALL. We were having a really nice discussion about a TV show and working with our dogs until you saw an opportunity to come in and drop an insulting little comment on "Cesar fans", saying that they have to "catch up" to you and your methods. No thanks.

    And anyone who feels the sting of your comment "has no sense of humor". 

    I suggest you take a lesson from ron. If you really cared about reaching out to the "other side" of this stupid argument, you'd stop looking down your nose and pushing people away with insults and start listening to what people are really saying. Wink

    Now, I suggest we let this little unfortunate incident go and move on. spiritdogs, if you have something to add to the thread, go for it, but I'd hope you keep your personal derailment tactics to yourself. Wink
     

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  • 10-07-2007 3:28 PM In reply to spiritdogs

    • Ixas_girl
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    spiritdogs:
    Gawd, lighten up and untwist the undies
     

    I find that to be a very unattractive image to relate about fellow posters. Tongue Tied

    One of the many things I like about Millan, and his focus on humans striving to be impeccable, is that he would find such an expression to be as unhelpful as I do. I appreciate Millan because we share basic values: integrity, altruism, philanthropy, learning, efficacy, authenticity ...

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  • 10-07-2007 3:45 PM In reply to Ixas_girl

    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    Ixas_girl:
    I appreciate Millan because we share basic values
     

    I'm beginning to think that's one of the most important things that attracts me to the man. Yes, some of the methods are good, some are GREAT, but I really respect who he is and the gentleness with which he handles his relationships to animals and people, even though he disagrees with what they've been doing. He has a way of respecting people and dogs that I find extremely attractive. The way to win friends and influence people, I guess... 

    The owner of the "frightened dog" on last week's episode was a really neat guy. He worked with children and music and wanted to bring his dog into that  part of his world and meld them all together. And Cesar gave him the tools to make it happen. I loved seeing the dogs asleep in the music room together, just hanging out being all calm.

    I'm gonna cry again! LOL  

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  • 10-07-2007 4:41 PM In reply to Ixas_girl

    • ron2
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    Ixas_girl:
    Gawd, lighten up and untwist the undies

     

    Ixas_girl:
    I find that to be a very unattractive image

     

    These are reasons I quit wearing undies. Difficult to get twisted panties if you aren't wearing any.

    As for characterizations or sarcasm, there's been plenty of that around in other threads. As a sheet flapping in the wind, I get my fair share of it and am expected to have a sense of humor, even as my viewpoint is diminished because I don't have someone else's exact situation. So, while we endure being sheets flapping in the wind in an uppity way without enough dogs to warrant commenting, or dogs that aren't heavy enough to warrant a comment, or whatever the deciding factor is in who is competent to comment, I would hope that a little undie-twisting can be remedied. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, at least in my opinion.

    I, too, believe CM to be of integrity and commitment, even if I don't always agree with his style or even his perception of the problem or solution. That is, while I do not always endorse his policies or methods or behavioral models, I can appreciate that he means well.

    And it is the hope of this flapping sheet in the wind with a clicker in my right front pocket that CM will, in fact, expand his education and understanding and be able to show that on the show and that he will be able to use more of these other methods. We know he knows how to finger bite, and foot tap, and collar pop and tsst. Let's see him do the other stuff. If you want to talk about balance, then let's see some balance. FWIW, in the episode where he helped Holly, with the rebuilt leg that needed slow physical rehab, he was gentle in his own way of having the owner physically place the dog. And even though we know that physical means, nigh onto molding help immediately, it's the underlying change in behavior that we are looking for and that comes from within the dog. And in the case of this walk, the reason for the slow heel position was not to assume alpha, but to slow the dog down in order to use the gimpy leg. I also applaud that he cautioned the owner to start out slow and small. Just make it to the neighbor's driveway and back. The 2 mile walk can happen later.

    Now, what will happen to his audience if he truly incorporates more of the other quadrants of OC than just +P? Will they follow his journey or turn away, once he's "gone soft"?

    The way you treat your dog in this life determines your place in heaven. - chukchi proverb


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  • 10-07-2007 4:47 PM In reply to ron2

    • Ixas_girl
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    ron2:
    These are reasons I quit wearing undies.
     

     LOL! TMI, Ron, TMI! Zip it! LOL!
     

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  • 10-07-2007 4:50 PM In reply to Ixas_girl

    • ron2
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    Re: RE: the dog whisperer - season 4

    Ixas_girl:

    ron2:
    These are reasons I quit wearing undies.
     

     LOL! TMI, Ron, TMI! Zip it! LOL!
     

    I knew someone would appreciate my humor. Or did I really quit wearing panties? Heck, now I'm confused.

     

    The way you treat your dog in this life determines your place in heaven. - chukchi proverb


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