aggressive with strangers

• 07-17-2007 10:38 AM

  oxvt Joined on 07-17-2007 Posts 2 Points 0

  aggressive with strangers Reply Contact My wife and I have a 6 year old male boxer and 2 year old female boxer.  We do not have any aggression issues with the female.  We got the male boxer when he was a little less than a year old from a breeder in FL.  The breeder would not sale him because he had broken his leg as a puppy.   I want to start off and say that our dog is very sweet and smart.  He has Lyme disease and we put on antibiotics when it flares up.   He has had problems with strangers for the past couple of years.  He is not aggressive with other dogs.  Here are some examples of the problems we are having:   ·         He will lung/act aggressive to strangers when we take him on walks/runs.  He will appear to act unbiased and then will get aggressive.  He does not growl or bark.  I can sense the dog is uncomfortable in these situations.   ·         He overreacts (barking and putting his paws on the window) to people walking by our home or when people come in.  He kind of gets in a zone and is tough to calm down.  If we did not crate him he would break the window.  When we have new people over, we crate him.  He acts fine around our family and children.  He likes some people and cannot stand others.   ·         One time my father in-law was doing work in our backyard.  He went inside took a shower and changed his clothes.  The house next door had a small fire and a fire truck with sirens was there.  My father in-law went outside to see what the commotion was and our dog bit him in the back of leg.  He is usually very friendly with him.   We just had our first baby and are in the process of moving.  My in-laws watched him while we had our home on the market.  They had two instances of him acting aggressive on walk/runs and people ringing the door bell.  This has only happened a couple of times (3-4) with us over the past 5 years but I do try to avoid these type of situations.  My in-laws talked to us about their concerns with our dog because the baby.    We want to be responsible owners and fair to the dog.  If somebody jumped into our backyard, I am pretty sure he would bite them.  We don't want to worry about the dog getting out when people are over or the baby is crawling around.  We also don't want the dog to live in a crate.  My in-laws suggested that we find a new home for the dog or put him down.  The dog has never showed any signs of aggression to us or children.  He usually is aggressive towards large men.  I am interested if anyone has had much success in breaking these types of behaviors with training.  I feel bad because I have not done much to correct this type of behavior.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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• 07-17-2007 11:50 AM

  In reply to oxvt

  Cita Joined on 12-13-2006 CT Posts 4,389 Points 735

  RE: aggressive with strangers Reply Contact Definitely sounds like you know you need to work on this, which is great. First off I really recommend a professional trainer and behavior consultant. If nothing else it's a *huge* weight off your mind - you don't need to keep worrying about whether or not you're doing it "right" - you do your own research and come up with a plan that you think would make sense, then you have a trainer come by to confirm and help you fine-tune that plan. You probably aren't super experienced with aggressive dogs so having someone who is to read body language and analyze the situation can be incredibly helpful. He will lunge/act aggressive to strangers when we take him on walks/runs.  He will appear to act unbiased and then will get aggressive.  He does not growl or bark.  I can sense the dog is uncomfortable in these situations. If he's not growling or barking, how does he act aggressive (other than the lunging)? This is what worked with my dog, when he randomly decided to hate some people we passed on walks: 1) get a really tasty treat either that's kind of sticky or that is cut into teeny tiny pieces 2) pick somewhere that's not very crowded 3) as you're walking your dog, the *minute* you see someone else get your dog to walk a bit off the path with you. Side of the sidwalk, off the trail, onto the shoulder of the road, whatever is putting distance in between you and the stranger. 4) while your dog is out of the way, make him focus on you. If you have a "watch me" command that's great. If not, a sit/stay, sit/down/stand/stay, whatever - ask him to do a couple things. When he does that, give him the treat(s), but make them last a looooong time. The idea is that the dog is focused on you and calm, and when he's focused on you (even if he's just kind of looking in your direction instead of at the stranger), he gets treats. 5) gradually you can decrease the distance between you and the stranger before moving to the side - first maybe you do it when he's 50 feet away, then the next week maybe when he's 40 feet away, etc. Eventually you shouldn't need to get your dog off the path at all, but it is a very slow process. He overreacts (barking and putting his paws on the window) to people walking by our home or when people come in.  He kind of gets in a zone and is tough to calm down.  If we did not crate him he would break the window.  When we have new people over, we crate him.  He acts fine around our family and children.  He likes some people and cannot stand others. What do you do when he does this? You might be inadvertently reinforcing it. One thing you can do is try to "desensitize" him to people coming and going through the door. Find a friend that you know he doesn't hate, and then have that friend come in the door. The friend doesn't look at the dog, doesn't touch the dog, and everyone ignores the dog, but the friend drops a few pieces of treats or kibbles on the ground and just stands there until the dog eats them. Then the friend leaves, and does it again. If your dog is barking because he's afraid of the strangers that would help him become a little more trusting of them. If he's barking because he's guarding, you can try baby steps to get him to basically shift control over the comings and goings of the household to you - if he thinks it's his job to go crazy when people come over, you have to convince him that you're in charge of all that. Does he know a command like "Go to your crate?" If so, previously-mentioned good friend can practice just walking outside the house. The minute your dog notices him, the dog is told to go to his crate, where he receives a big delicious treat. The idea is for the dog to learn that seeing someone new = going to the crate = good things inside the crate = mom and dad will take care of it and I don't have to worry. You might also check out "Click to Calm" or "The Cautious Canine" - both are books I think you would find helpful for dealing with these troubles. Because he did bite your father-in-law I very strongly suggest finding a trainer. If you tell us where you are located we could help you search for one with good credentials. You're doing the right thing in acknowledging the severity of your dog's issues, particularly with a new baby in the house. I also strongly recommend implementing a program of "NILIF" (nothing in life is free). Have the dog work for everything - lie down before he gets his dinner, sit before he gets to go outside, etc. Give him some strict guidelines so he knows what's expected of him and make sure everyone in your family is consistent with them. My dog has had similar issues and sadly they actually got worse before I finally found a trainer to help us deal with them. Sometimes the greatest benefit of a trainer is getting everyone in the house on the same page - nobody likes to have someone nagging them all the time, but if the trainer is strict with the family, then it's more like you're all on the same team instead of that you the dad are the "bad guy" bossing everyone around. Our trainer also gave us some very specific ideas to help with our specific problems (such as biting when someone else wanted to put the leash on) that were incredibly helpful. My dog is already doing a lot better, so don't worry - there is hope!!!

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• 07-17-2007 11:57 AM

  In reply to oxvt

  schleide Joined on 09-10-2007 Boston Posts 543 Points 0

  RE: aggressive with strangers Reply Contact Hi and welcome!  I am sure that people with more experience than I have will be around shortly to add their two cents - but, FWIW, it doesn't sound to me like you have an unmanageable situation on your hands - at least, you owe it to your dog to get a good trainer or behaviorist to come and work with him before you make a decision to rehome or put your dog to sleep (especially since you have not really worked on this behavior with your dog before).    Your dog sounds like my dog, who is not good with a lot of strangers (although he is great with our family and is good with the children he has met).  We handle the situation with a combination of management, desensitization, training and structure.  Our dog, Wesley is on pretty strict NILIF (nothing in life is free) all the time (happy to elaborate if you are not sure what this program is - there is a whole thread on it going on right now though); he is leashed when new people come over and our guests are instructed to ignore him (no petting, no looking at him, just completely ignoring him); we work with a trainer on desensitizing him to having people touch him; and, we are constantly working his obedience so that ultimately, we will be able to trust him to obey a command like "leave it" when he is uncomfortable and thinking he might want to engage someone inappropriately.  Wesley's days are fairly structured and we try to make our expectations of him very clear - and he has made HUGE strides.     Hopefully some of the things I noted that have worked for us are things you might be able to incorporate in working with your dog.  I also want to reiterate that when dealing with this type of behavior, particularly when there are children in the mix - it is always a good idea to consult with and work with a professional.  If it were me, I would look for a trainer with certification (I think the one to look for is CPDT) or a behaviorist with an advanced degree in animal behavior (not just someone who calls themselves a behaviorist), someone who has experience with the sort of trouble you are having and who uses training methods you are comfortable with (I learned this lesson the hard way when the first behaviorist I worked with was much more physical/correction oriented than I was comfortable with) .  If you let us know what area you are from, someone might have a great person they could recommend to you...

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• 07-17-2007 12:07 PM

  In reply to oxvt

  Stacita Joined on 08-20-2006 Sacramento, CA Posts 1,555 Points 30

  RE: aggressive with strangers Reply Contact The other two posters have both given you very good, sound advice. The only thing I have to add that in searching for a trainer/behavioralist it's APDT. If you have a veterinary university near you, it may be beneficial to contact them and try to find a veterinary behavioralist. It is possible that your dog is reacting partially out of a medical condition. They are expensive, but the people I've heard use them have reported excellent results.   I wish you the best of luck with this. Please keep us posted.

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• 07-17-2007 12:53 PM

  In reply to oxvt

  oxvt Joined on 07-17-2007 Posts 2 Points 0	RE: aggressive with strangers Reply Contact We live in Raleigh, NC   If he's not growling or barking, how does he act aggressive (other than the lunging)? - eye contact, stiff body     What do you do when he does this? - get him away from the window or put him in his create
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• 07-17-2007 3:13 PM

  In reply to oxvt

  Cita Joined on 12-13-2006 CT Posts 4,389 Points 735

  RE: aggressive with strangers Reply Contact A good place to get started searching is the APDT (association of pet dog trainers) or the IAABC (international association of animal behavioral consultants). It's really important to get someone who will come to your home, since that's where a lot of the problems are taking place. Other things I would look for are extensive experience, involvement in other dog activities beyond just "doggy rehab" (shows dedication, IMO - maybe also involved with rescue, or agility, or showing), and an extensive question and answer session during which the trainer is more than happy to answer any of your questions (defensiveness = bad sign) and will ask you more questions than you ever felt possible. You want someone you feel is really listening to you, not just giving a "pre-packaged" response. You also want someone who seems to actually like dogs - the trainer should seem to enjoy your animals and be confident around them. People I found quickly, not sure how close they are: From the IAABC: Heide Coppotelli, PhD, CDBC, Brevard, North Carolina: dogs, service & therapy dogs Dr. Coppotelli is a psychologist and dog behavior consultant in private practice, including the use of dogs in trauma rehab and other treatment. E-mail: [email=goodshepherd@infoave.net]goodshepherd@infoave.net[/email] Jennifer Shryock, BA-MPH, CDBC, Cary, North Carolina: dogs Ms. Shryock is owner of Family Paws, offering canine behavior consulting with a specialization of children. She is the Creator of the Dogs & Storks...infant safety programs. Jennifer is also the United States Vice President & Education consultant for Doggone Safe, [linkhttp://www.doggonesafe.com.%C2%A0]www.doggonesafe.com. [/link] Web: [linkhttp://www.familypaws.com/]www.familypaws.com[/link]    E-mail: [email=Jen@familypaws.com]Jen@familypaws.com[/email] [email=Jen@familypaws.com] [/email]Molly Stone-Elmore, CDBC, Wake Forest, North Carolina: dogs Ms. Stone is a dog behavior consultant. Email: [email=info@communicanine.com]info@communicanine.com[/email] From the APDT: Michele Godlevski, CC, CPDT [linkhttp://www.dogtrainingraleighnc.net/]Teamworks Dog Training[/link] Telephone: 919-696-5558 Website: [linkhttp://www.dogtrainingraleighnc.net/]www.dogtrainingraleighnc.net[/link] E-Mail: [email=teamworkshelp@yahoo.com]teamworkshelp@yahoo.com[/email] [email=teamworkshelp@yahoo.com][/email] Services: Doggie Dayschool, Manners, Rally, Musical Freestyle, Therapy Dog, Agility, Tracking, Dominant Dogs, Fearful Fidos, In-Home Behavior Consultations & In-Board Training. Joanne Murphy, CTC, CPDT [linkhttp://www.dogdynamicsnc.com/]Dog Dynamics, LLC [/link] Telephone: 919-349-2267 Website: [linkhttp://www.dogdynamicsnc.com/]www.dogdynamicsnc.com[/link] E-Mail: [email=dog-dynamics@nc.rr.com]dog-dynamics@nc.rr.com[/email] [email=dog-dynamics@nc.rr.com][/email] Services: Certified Trainer & Behavior Counselor providing in-home behavior consultations & positive reinforcement training for all behavior issues. Specializing in Aggression, Fear,& Separation Anxiety problems in dogs. Serving Raleigh, Cary, Durham & Chapel Hill Melissa Duran, CPDT, CPDT [linkhttp://www.canineacclaim.com/]Canine Acclaim Dog Training [/link] Telephone: 919-341-2731 Website: [linkhttp://www.canineacclaim.com/]www.canineacclaim.com[/link] E-Mail: [email=info@canineacclaim.com]info@canineacclaim.com[/email] [email=info@canineacclaim.com][/email] Services: I offer puppy and adult dog group classes, private training, CGC testing, doggy day camp, educational seminars, temperament testing and other special interest training classes. Sylvie leasant [linkhttp://www.trianglecaninesolutions.com/]Sylvies K9 Solutions [/link] Telephone: 919-779-3813 Website: [linkhttp://www.trianglecaninesolutions.com/]www.trianglecaninesolutions.com[/link] E-Mail: [email=sylviepleasant@nc.rr.com]sylviepleasant@nc.rr.com[/email] [email=sylviepleasant@nc.rr.com][/email] Services: Private in-home training/consulting, group classes, behavioral problem solutions, workshops. Jennifer Shryock, Dog Behavior consultant [linkhttp://www.familypaws.com/]Family Paws[/link] Telephone: 919-961-1608 Website: [linkhttp://www.familypaws.com/]www.familypaws.com[/link] E-Mail: [email=jen@familypaws.com]jen@familypaws.com[/email] [email=jen@familypaws.com][/email] Services: Dog behavior consulting services specializing in child/dog interaction. Creator of Dogs & Storks programs...prenatal programs for families with dogs. Ryan Douglas [linkhttp://www.borntoleadk9.com/]Born to Lead K-9 Academy[/link] Telephone: 919-762-8731 Website: [linkhttp://www.borntoleadk9.com/]www.borntoleadk9.com[/link] E-Mail: [email=Ryan@borntoleadk9.com]Ryan@borntoleadk9.com[/email] [email=Ryan@borntoleadk9.com][/email] Services: We offer in-home dog and owner training for the entire Raleigh area. Specializing in obedience and behavior problem consultations for all dogs. Samantha Seal, CPDT [linkhttp://www.sunnyacrespetresort.com/] [/link] Telephone: 919-383-4238 Website: [linkhttp://www.sunnyacrespetresort.com/]www.sunnyacrespetresort.com[/link] E-Mail: [email=syseal@yahoo.com]syseal@yahoo.com[/email] [email=syseal@yahoo.com][/email] Services: Compassionate and practical dog training - basic manners, leash walking, aggression, multi-dog households and agility. Edit to fix formatting a little

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• 07-17-2007 7:03 PM

  In reply to oxvt

  ron2 Joined on 09-10-2007 far north central Texas Posts 9,456 Points 500	RE: aggressive with strangers Reply Contact Bravo! [sm=clapping%20hands%20smiley.gif]   A most excellent response, IMO. The way you treat your dog in this life determines your place in heaven. - chukchi proverb
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• 07-18-2007 1:26 PM

  In reply to oxvt

  janet_rose Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW area, Texas Posts 3,608 Points 330

  RE: aggressive with strangers Reply Contact These books might give you additional things to talk to the behaviorist about while you are working with him/her.   Hartmann-Kent, Silvia, Your Dog and Your Baby: A Practical Guide, 5/1999 http://tinyurl.com/3rrzm  Kilcommons, Brian, Childproofing Your Dog: A Complete Guide to Preparing Your Dog…, 4/1994 http://tinyurl.com/6hkj3 (includes a chapter on dogproofing your child)  Pelar, Colleen, Living with Kids and Dogs...Without Losing Your Mind, 8/2005 http://tinyurl.com/2bb7mv

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• 07-21-2007 6:54 AM

  In reply to oxvt

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 9,940 Points 715

  RE: aggressive with strangers Reply Contact The breeder would not sale him because he had broken his leg as a puppy. Be sure your behaviorist knows this.  Unfortunately, if the dog was isolated from a lot of contact with humans, or the accident occurred during a fear imprint period, this may be the reason for your dog's response to strangers.  Also, read up on desensitization and counterconditioning.  www.clickertraining.com You might want to grab a copy of "Click to Calm".  It's for aggressive dogs, but the techniques for getting the dog to focus on you, not the distraction, are excellent. Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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