HW treatment

• 08-31-2007 12:55 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  DumDog Joined on 04-02-2007 North Florida Posts 4,508 Points 205	RE: HW treatment Reply Contact since we're in Florida we have to do year round prevention.. you never know when the temp will spike to the upper 70's. one year we went to thebeach and had a cook out on new years day... we have mosquitos year round it seems. Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.
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• 08-31-2007 1:01 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  janet_rose Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW area, Texas Posts 3,748 Points 330

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact i give Kaydee what the vet recommended (heart guardplus) but i have known some people that give the horse wormer Ivermec to their dogs instead of the heart guard.... when i asked the vet he kinda rolled his eyes and gave an answer kind of like "hmm yeah well... its ok BUT... this is better" ... was that because it also prevents other parasites or is there something else involved? The "Plus" in Heartgard Plus is a second med that kills roundworms, hookworms, and Taenia tapeworms.  The main reasons for the "eye roll" were probably dosage concerns and loss of a sale.   Just happen to like how Revolution works, and what it prevents.  This stuff stays in the dog's bloodstream all month.  I wouldn't use it.   when we first got her she tested medium low for heart worms so the vet gave me heart guard... but after what i read last night i'm wondering why he didnt just give her the stuff that would kill them out right. Heartgard will gradually kill adult heartworms (L6).  It kills outright the microfilaria (initial babies), L3 (the immature heartworms that infect the dog when a mosquito bites), L4, and younger L5 stages.   Heartworm treatments to kill adults involve the use of an arsenic compound and are very hard on the dog.  If there are only a few heartworms, gradually killing them may be a safer option.

  Filed under: hookworms, Heartgard, Revolution, heartworms, tapeworms, roundworms, heartworm treatment, Heartgard Plus Post Points: 0

• 08-31-2007 1:15 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  janet_rose Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW area, Texas Posts 3,748 Points 330

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact since we're in Florida we have to do year round prevention. You definitely need to do yearly tests in your area.  Unfortunately heartworm "preventatives" are not foolproof.  If an immature heartworm gets into an area of low blood flow, it may not get enough of the pesticide to kill it.   In areas where heartworms are not a big problem, a vet may not consider a yearly test for adult female heartworms to be worth the money.  The vet would probably take into consideration whether or not the client was regular in giving the heartworm "preventative" (alias "immature heartworm pesticide").

  Filed under: heartworms Post Points: 0

• 08-31-2007 1:15 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  DumDog Joined on 04-02-2007 North Florida Posts 4,508 Points 205

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact thanks for the info. what about the ones that outright kill the adults? when do they use that treatment? is it rare? when we were kids my sister's shepherd to be PTS when she was hit by a car. they couldnt do the surgery because she had heart worms. the risk was that she would die anyway. maybe medicine has changed since then. it was 1996 or 7when this happened. i know she was heartworm treatment but she was infected. another person i knew put their dog down BECAUSE she had heart worms [:-] didnt make sense to me at all Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.

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• 08-31-2007 1:27 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  cyclefiend2000 Joined on 09-10-2007 On the road to nowhere Posts 4,195 Points 330

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact sydney sometimes spits out the heartguard chewable too. he will usually take it on the second try. last time we needed HW preventative, we were strapped for cash. we bought some generic heartguard from this site... http://www.petshed.com/products/category346.asp it was about 1/2 what we usually pay at the vets. it isnt a chewable though. it is a little pill. i just put some in a little peanut butter and voila!

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• 08-31-2007 1:59 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts 7,100 Points 850

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact In areas where heartworms are not a big problem, a vet may not consider a yearly test for adult female heartworms to be worth the money. The vet would probably take into consideration whether or not the client was regular in giving the heartworm "preventative" (alias "immature heartworm pesticide"). I just took Kenya in and ordered a heartworm test even though she didn't "need" it.  I'd rather pay the $27 once a year for a heartworm test since I'm using the "poor man's" version of heartworm (carefully dosed ivermectin) than have her get heartworm and never know.  To get the test and a year's supply of drug (actually more but the stuff we use expires WAY before you can use it all) is $35 total. vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop RA CL1-F CL1-R TT HIC TDI CGC ("Kenya", GSD) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC ("Coke", All American) Alta-Tollhaus' Bono ("Nikon", GSD)

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• 08-31-2007 2:57 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  Bobsk8 Joined on 08-22-2006 Atlanta, GA Posts 1,513 Points 100	RE: HW treatment Reply Contact ORIGINAL: DPU Get the test.  For me its $80 and I do it annually but then again I don't HW prevention in the winter months.  My choice for funding reason but I am sure one day it is going to come back and bite me. Many states now show incidents of heartworms right though the late fall and early winter months.  Adopt rather than buy, and save a life
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• 08-31-2007 3:22 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Grand Rapids, Michigan Posts 7,100 Points 850

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact Many states now show incidents of heartworms right though the late fall and early winter months. Yes.  I live in Michigan and it starts to snow here in October and will snow through the end of April and my vet advised heartworm through Dec. and then start again in April.  I think the reasoning is that the preventative kills the babies already in the dog's system, it doesn't actually prevent them.  So if your dog got heartworms in aug/sept. and you stopped in sept/oct b/c you thought it was late enough in the season, the heartworms just keep growing.... I think you want to give the preventative a month or two or three beyond the mosquito season b/c what it does it kills the worms; it doesn't prevent the dog from getting infected. vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop RA CL1-F CL1-R TT HIC TDI CGC ("Kenya", GSD) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC ("Coke", All American) Alta-Tollhaus' Bono ("Nikon", GSD)

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• 08-31-2007 5:36 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  aussielover Joined on 09-10-2007 Shelby Township, Michigan Posts 103 Points 105	RE: HW treatment Reply Contact I agree about yearly testing being a necessity! Being from Michigan myself, my vet has, for the last several years, recommended year-round HW preventive. She says mosquitos have been turning up in homes all winter in our area. And it seems to be true- I got bitten inside the house in January!! [:@] Life is better with dogs! -Mary
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• 08-31-2007 7:20 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  calliecritturs Joined on 09-10-2007 Central Florida Posts 7,293 Points 1,975

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact If a dog *can* take ivermectin (not a herder and not a breed that is sensitive to ivermectin) then the dose range is unbelievably huge.    The dose of ivermectin for heartworm preventive is  [size=1]0.003 - 0.0066 mg/lb.  The dose for 'mites' like sarcops or chellytiella is 0.14 mg/lb but the dose of the SAME drug that they give for demodex (to try to force the drug into the skin) is 0.27 mg/lb **daily**. [/size](Then of course you have to convert "mg" to "ml" or "cc" which isn't intuitive for folks) count the zeros folks -- the dose for demodex is like 200 times the dose for heartworm microfilaria and it's given DAILY not monthly (this is why I'm always screaming don't use ivermectin on demodex -- they're manipulating the body with a side effect of ivermectin not killing mites really).  Part of the problem here is Dum dog is in Florida.  Heartworm capital of the known universe (TX running us a close second only with 'more' because of it's sheer size).  They say like 95% of all the dogs that go thru animal control now are positive. Down here they aren't even telling you to 'test' anymore -- they're telling you just NEVER miss a month.  And the problem with the HeartGuard is because it's dosed SO low that if it isn't killing microfilaria, then they are resistant to the ivermectin (let's just raise "super-heartworms" *sigh*).  You really can use the Ivomec pretty easily -- I always tell folks to take the package insert to their pharmacy to get help figuring the dilution (because part of the problem is that it's sold in different dilutions) That dose I listed above is higher than what they put in HeartGuard now.  I've never used the ivermectin paste -- only Ivomec.  But it's unbelievably cheaper -- you just can't use it on ALL dogs.  But after witnessing my sheltie mix's reaction to even half the above "dose" of ivermectin (I nearly lost him) no way would I be using HeartGuard at all on a herder.  I know the experience of some on here is that more herding breeds than thot can use ivermectin.  But I know my sheltie/corgi mix could *not*.  There is a 'test' that can be administered (the test costs probably about the same amount as the bottle of Ivomec).   The non-herding breeds that can't use ivermectin are pretty varied and you'd have to research your own breed -- I know they say "no" now to Irish water spaniels and whippets.  But I haven't kept up with which new breeds they say not to use it with. But aussielover brings up an excellent point (and one I've stressed many times before) -- with the advent of produce trucks bringing 'fresh' produce up from southern countries, it's not uncommon at all for mosquitos to 'ride home' in your bananas or produce and fly around in your house for a while even in January.  They're pretty hardy, unfortunately.

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• 08-31-2007 7:31 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  rexandbaby Joined on 04-02-2007 Limington, Maine Posts 833 Points 175	RE: HW treatment Reply Contact Sorry if I missed something, I did a fast read scan.  To have a heartworm test here in Maine, it is $35.  The heartgard is $45 for 6 mos.  I am on year round control, and I have them tested every second year.  So far so good!
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• 09-01-2007 3:46 PM

  In reply to DumDog

  DumDog Joined on 04-02-2007 North Florida Posts 4,508 Points 205	RE: HW treatment Reply Contact thanks for the info everyone. i'm getting next available appointment for my dogs.. and the cat too if i can - not sure they're see them all three the same day. Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.
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• 09-04-2007 7:37 AM

  In reply to DumDog

  janet_rose Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW area, Texas Posts 3,748 Points 330

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact DumDog: what about the ones that outright kill the adults? when do they use that treatment? is it rare? There is a trade off point between the damage the worms do and the stress of the heartworm treatment.  A vet has to decide where the line is.  Slow kill of just a few worms may be better than putting the dog through arsenic treatments.   Unfortunately, a lot of dogs wind up with heartworms bad enough that the treatment is needed and it isn't cheap. DumDog: another person i knew put their dog down BECAUSE she had heart worms didnt make sense to me at all A dog that is badly infected with heartworms can be too sick to survive the arsenic treatments.  There can be considerable damage to the heart and lungs, plus other complications depending on where the heartworms are located.  Sometimes surgery is needed, but the dog is too weak to survive it.   One can attempt one of the slow kill methods, but it can take a long time and may not succeed before the heartworms (or the heartworm dead bodies) kill the dog.  I am not sure what kind of advice vets give on the slow methods.    Heartworm Society: http://www.heartwormsociety.org/article.asp?id=11 A heartworm infected dog with mild disease may appear to be perfectly normal upon physical examination. Severely affected dogs, however, may show signs of right-sided heart failure. Labored breathing or crackles may be heard in the lungs due to vascular clots and elevated pressure. A history of coughing and inability to exercise are among the earliest detectable abnormalities. Tachycardia (rapid heartbeat), ascites (fluid in the abdomen) and hepatomegaly (enlarged liver) indicate right-sided congestive heart failure. Hemoptysis (blood in the sputum) occasionally occurs and indicates severe clots and complications within the lungs. Anorexia (loss of appetite), cachexia (severe weight loss), syncope (fainting), jaundice or yellow bile pigmentation present in the skin and mucus membranes may appear in severely affected dogs. Occasionally, heartworms are reported in abnormal locations such as the eyes, abdominal cavity, cerebral artery and spinal cord. Clinical signs and disease experienced in such infections depend largely on the location of the worms. The primary response to the presence of heartworms in dogs, however, occurs in the heart and lungs. 

  Filed under: heartworms, hepatomegaly, anorexia, syncope, ascites, hemoptysis, tachycardia Post Points: 0

• 09-04-2007 8:36 AM

  In reply to DumDog

  calliecritturs Joined on 09-10-2007 Central Florida Posts 7,293 Points 1,975	RE: HW treatment Reply Contact Unless a vet works with a rescue group, most don't ever suggest the "slow" method.  It takes patience to bring a dog thru that but it surely can be done.  but the heart and lungs have to be pretty compromised for a vet to suggest it.  But down here in the deep South, most  rescue groups ARE using it because it's so much more cost effective.
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• 09-04-2007 9:25 AM

  In reply to DumDog

  dyan Joined on 09-10-2007 Ohio Posts 4,791 Points 105

  RE: HW treatment Reply Contact  when i asked the vet he kinda rolled his eyes and gave an answer kind of like "hmm yeah well... its ok BUT... this is better" ... I think most vets chose which prevention they want to sell, and they will say "this is better!" As far as mosquitos living all year around in the cold months....yes they can. But can they help spread HW?  No! In the article which I provided the link below,,, Heartworm larvae cannot develop to the stage needed to infect dogs until temperatures have been over 57 degrees Fahrenheit (14 degrees Centigrade), day and night, for at least one to two weeks. The amount of time it takes will vary depending on how warm it is: the warmer the temperatures, the faster the heartworm larvae develop. If temperatures drop below that point at any time during the cycle, development may be prevented, but I wouldn't rely on this. Temperatures can vary according to where the mosquito lives, and may be warmer under the eaves of houses or in other protected areas than the general ambient temperature. So yes, on a warm day, a dormant mosquito can be in your house but I dont' think you have to worry about them carrying HW.  Here is the "cold states" even when you get the rare day of 60 degrees, you better believe its dropping down back into the 30s at night.  This is the best condensed article on HW I have read. [linkhttp://www.dogaware.com/HeartwormPrevention.html]http://www.dogaware.com/HeartwormPrevention.html[/link] Dyan and Bubby

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