Forum Post

5 am run to the vet

Last post 08-03-2007 5:55 PM by chasza. 24 replies.
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  • 08-03-2007 11:34 AM In reply to Madis mom

    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    ALT liver count

     
    I found this website talking about canine liver problems.  [linkhttp://www.canine-epilepsy.com/liverdisease.htm]http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/liverdisease.htm[/link]
     
    What is your vet doing for the inflated liver count?  If he working to find a cause?  I am sure it is not just diet.
     
    Good luck.
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  • 08-03-2007 11:38 AM In reply to Madis mom

    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    I know she wasn't diagnosed with live disease but this was interesting.  A homeopathic remedity called Milk Thistle:
     
    [linkhttp://www.i-love-my-dogs.com/dog-liver-disease.html?gclid=CL2mvarU2Y0CFReQGgodBzg9mQ]http://www.i-love-my-dogs.com/dog-liver-disease.html?gclid=CL2mvarU2Y0CFReQGgodBzg9mQ[/link]
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  • 08-03-2007 11:41 AM In reply to Madis mom

    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    Alanine aminotransferase (ALT) is an enzyme important in liver function. It leaks from cells that are damaged. The magnitude of elevation is roughly proportional to the number of injured liver cells. The magnitude, however, does NOT correlate with the seriousness of the liver disease or the prognosis. It takes about 3 weeks for the blood levels to return to normal after a single episode of damage to the liver. It was previously called serum glutamic pyruvic transaminase (SGPT).\
     
    [linkhttp://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1578&articleid=315]http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1578&articleid=315[/link]
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  • 08-03-2007 4:06 PM In reply to Madis mom

    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    My girls get a milk thistle every day and they have great blood work for liver every time.  I sure hope she gets her liver back to normal.
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  • 08-03-2007 4:24 PM In reply to Madis mom

    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    Liver disease links:  
      
    The Liver - 2003 B-Naturals Newsletter
    Diet for Liver Needs - 2004 B-Naturals Newsletter

    Liver and Gallbladder Supplements - B-Naturals
    Sunny's Miracle Diet For Liver Problems
    Liver Cleansing Diet - formulated by W. Jean Dodds, DVM
    Liver Problems, Diet, Supplements, Lots of Links - DogAware
    Symptoms & Diagnosis of Liver Disorders - Drs. Foster & Smith
    Liver Disease: Signs, Symptoms, and Diagnosis
    Liver Disease Summary - Long Beach Animal Hospital 
    Diagnosing Liver Disease in Dogs: What do the Tests Really Mean?
    Hope for Healing Liver Disease in Your Dog    -   book
    Yahoo  - Canine Liver Group

    Bertes Liver Pack - B-Naturals 

    includes SAM-e (S-Adenosyl-Methionine) and Milk Thistle (Silymarin) which improve liver function and help prevent toxins from putting additional stress on the liver. Berte's EPA Fish Oil and Vitamin E support liver regeneration and repair with increased antioxidants and nutrients, while Bertes Zyme aids in the digestion of fat. 

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  • 08-03-2007 4:27 PM In reply to Madis mom

    • g33
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-12-2006
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    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    Did you change your laundry detergent recently?  How about ant traps or bug sprays for your house?  Were your lawn or trees chemically treated lately?  Are you wearing a new perfume?  Using a new body wash?  New shampoo or soap for yourself?  New dish soap? 
    ~ Gina W. ~
    Mom to Shannon (human baby)
    and Cole (doggy baby), 7 year old Black Lab



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  • 08-03-2007 4:30 PM In reply to Madis mom

    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    Note that the Dr. Dodds' diet that I listed is the newest version and is quite different from the original.
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  • 08-03-2007 5:55 PM In reply to Madis mom

    • chasza
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    • Joined on 09-10-2007
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    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    Just a side note:  once every thing calms down - and I hope that's soon - if you continue to homcook, there is more to learn - such as the phosporus in the meat Must be balanced with calcium.    ;Poor girl, I hope she is doing better now and that you have found a good vet to help you.
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  • 08-03-2007 7:21 PM In reply to Madis mom

    • Madis mom
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    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    Thank you everyone for all the kind and resourceful information.  It is giving me many leads.  The vet mentioned yesterday has not emailed back I will try and call her tomorrow.  Madi got sick twice last night.  Bile is so hard to get out of the carpet!
     
    The only thing I can think that might be bothering her is the carpet cleaner.  That is the only thing I changed.  In vegas we had tile and wood floors.  If either one of the kids got sick on the carpeted stairs I would use oxyclean in the carpet cleaner.  The carpet cleaner is still in Vegas with the hubby while we are trying to sell the house.  We are now in a townhouse with older carpet that needs cleaned.
     
    A giant catch 22...she gets sick, I clean the carpet, she has a reaction.  Not sure.  Her face and paws are better today.  I know she is hungry but the tummy will not handle that much food. 
     
    I have asked the vet in Vegas about the Milk Thistle.  She said madi's medicine has the ingredient in it and she did not recommend adding any of this herb beyond the medicine.  I am very interested in cooking her food.  I just want to run everything by the vet before proceeding.  Thank you everyone!
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  • 08-05-2007 6:59 PM In reply to Madis mom

    RE: 5 am run to the vet

    milk thistle (silymarin) is an herb (not a homeopathic).  You can get the ground herb in capsules, but the best, most effective is decocted in alcohol.  HerbPharm is the one I've used on Billy all year long  (he's taking cyclosporine which is mega bad on the liver and we just got a Bile Acids test that came back PERFECT on Friday!!!!)  But he's taking twice the adult human dose twice a day! 
     
    Milk thistle helps 'detox' the body/liver  ... even the ground herb will help a great deal (easy to give - it's almost tasteless).  There are pharmaceuticals now that kind of 'mimic' milk thistle. 
     
    Start that right away and give as much as you possibly can -- it's benign -- it won't hurt and it can help a WHOLE lot.
     
    But you gotta find out what has caused the elevated liver enzymes -- so it's a good place to start.  If you want to help yourself 'understand' a little more about the TCVM get Cheryl Schwartz's book "Four Paws Five Directions" (that vet may have it for sale in her office).
     
    A lot of things can cause elevated liver enzymes -- diet can help in a big way.  I'd suggest you talk to Doggie Dietician ([linkhttp://www.monicasegal.com]http://www.monicasegal.com[/link]) or even check out her Yahoo group.  Dr. Dodd's is also an incredible help.  But cooking for a liver dog is a bit different, but also you want to make sure you are not exacerbating something else.
     
    Just for future reference -- in both renal and liver 'failure' or problems, the body becomes 'toxic' (remember both these organs filter blood for the body). When these toxins build up the dog becomes VERY sick -- nauseus and they may throw up, not be able TO eat, etc.
     
    The big huge 'difference' is -- in renal failure the kidneys shunt toxins directly TO the stomach and that's why they get so sick.  It literally makes them nauseated because of the toxins IN the stomach and often ulcers and bleeding ulcers develop and they just plain can't eat.
     
    However, in liver problems -- toxins shunt to the **brain** rather than to the stomach.  They aren't *really* nauseaus -- but the brain ***thinks*** it is.  The operative difference is that if you can get rid of those toxins in the brain then the dog CAN and usually will eat.  So they use things like lactulose (and others) that bind to those toxins in the brain and carry them out of the body.  The problem is lactulose is, literally, a physic (mega laxative).  The more you give of it the more toxins it removes, but the worse the diarreha is.  There are a couple of different things used now, but binding toxins and getting them out of the body is a big huge deal to keep the liver dog EATING (so it *can* heal). 
     
    So if the vet prescribes something like that ask about it and why and how much.  And the TCVM vet will also have other things that will help with the liver.  When Foxy (sheltie/corgi mix I had that I lost last year at the age of 19 -- but he had a huge liver infection a few years ago which is where a whole lot of my knowledge/info comes from) was being treated they gave him a thing called "Exliptex" (Chinese herb) that was kind of a super milk thistle.  But one of the purposes of it was to help get rid of those toxins specifically.
     
    Good luck -- feel free to email me if I can help you in ANY way.  I know only too well how darned scarey this stuff is.

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