Deference, Appeasement & Calming Signals in Training

• 10-09-2009 11:32 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,726 Points 1,020

  Re: Deference, Appeasement & Calming Signals in Training Reply Contact Liesje: spiritdogs: Every trainer I know that uses corrections also uses a clicker. If you were going to correct a dog it should be long after you install the appropriate behaviors, and proof them thoroughly.    This is how it is done.  I don't know anyone who would use a clicker and corrections in the same training session.  Seems a little bass-ackward.   I totally agree with you, but you would be amazed at some of the &*^% I've seen;-))   Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 10-09-2009 2:51 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  Jewlieee Joined on 03-23-2007 MI Posts 7,307 Points 4,610

  Re: Deference, Appeasement & Calming Signals in Training Reply Contact  I recently ran in to a trainer that did not believe in using food or anything else. He was teaching a class that I dropped in on to work Abbie around other dogs. Thankfully the guy pretty much ignored me and I ignored him. I just worked abbie either in the center of the group or off in a corner. After the class though the guy and i got to talking and he revealed his non-reward system training. I know that it is no use to try to discuss any other methods with this type of person as they are set in their ways. So, I pretty much nodded, smiled and never went back

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• 10-09-2009 3:49 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 7,400 Points 145

  Re: Deference, Appeasement & Calming Signals in Training Reply Contact  I think it can sort of work, but it's limited, and if you try to do TOO much, it can backfire.  I think that mimicking a few of the basic gestures help to build a rapport with the animal.... but it's the equivalent of knowing how to say "Please" and "Thank you" in Portugese or French.  It gets you on side with the natives, but you'd be crazy to suppose that you could hold a fluent conversation with them, just from knowing a few words! "Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, but set fire to him and he is warm for the rest of his life." - Pratchett, "Jingo"

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• 10-11-2009 7:50 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  ron2 Joined on 09-10-2007 far north central Texas Posts 11,397 Points 595

  Re: Deference, Appeasement & Calming Signals in Training Reply Contact Liesje: Personally I think the biggest mistake people make with recalls is that they end the fun.  They try to recall the dog b/c it's time to go or whatever.  Why would the dog want to obey a command that always means the fun is over?  Regardless of my body language and tone of voice, when Nikon was little I did tons of impromptu recalls and immediately sent him back off to play.   Well done. Making the recall or sit fun and conditioning to the sound and tone of voice as you would use in the competition and making that fun, as well. So that hearing you bellow out platz at your volume is not a scary thing but something to be heeded because it ends well. The way you treat your dog in this life determines your place in heaven. - chukchi proverb

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• 10-11-2009 7:58 PM

  In reply to ron2

  ron2 Joined on 09-10-2007 far north central Texas Posts 11,397 Points 595

  Re: Deference, Appeasement & Calming Signals in Training Reply Contact On topic, I've had some luck with some gestures. Side presentation and downplaying the energy of meeting a dog that doesn't know me. Knowing that most dogs, even the ones that seem barky and aggressive are actually warding off a confrontation helps me to remember to offer myself as no threat. Even if I can't and won't get on all fours and sniff rear-ends. Also, since I am not a dog, my dog-speak is limited but I think a dog can interpret it well enough. In side presentation, you are also not allowing the dog to have frontal presentation with you. So, they have no particular reason to ramp up if you are not engaging in a frontal stare-down contest. Soothing tones help, at least they help me, as they keep me in the right frame of mind. If I am truly calm and relaxed, I smell like I am relaxed, another cue for the dog that I am no danger. In training Shadow in stressfull situations, I would look for the signs of calm, even if that happened to be no visible reaction at all. And rewarded that. With grilled pork chop. (I know some will say, not again with the treats. Well, you haven't tried my grilled pork chop.) The way you treat your dog in this life determines your place in heaven. - chukchi proverb

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• 10-14-2009 1:03 AM

  In reply to ron2

  Dog_ma Joined on 06-25-2007 San Diego County, California Posts 1,389 Points 860

  Re: Deference, Appeasement & Calming Signals in Training Reply Contact  Huh. I've had a lot of positive results using calming signals / doggie language. Obviously I'm not fluent in dog talk, but my dogs and other dogs I run into seem to accept my pidgin dog and respond as I'd wish. I curve, I yawn, I look away, I engage in play stances and that dance of Am-I-gonna-get-you-or-not. I've taught my 6 year old a lot of dog language and it's been useful to her to. She knows about looking way, she knows what yawning means, etc. "Are you a dog trainer?" "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night."

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