Animal Cruelty

• 11-04-2009 7:25 AM

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,729 Points 1,020

  Animal Cruelty Reply Contact I thought it might be interesting to have a little thread about instances where dog trainers have been accused of animal cruelty.  Regardless of the outcome of the cases, it's shocking to me that this would even have to be an issue, but apparently it is.  The scary thing is that most people, when they call a trainer, do not even ask about how the training will be carried out, and some actually leave their dogs at board and train centers without due diligence in investigating the techniques used behind those closed doors.  They ask how much it costs, or where you are located, way more than they talk about method.  But, many dogs have been subjected to nebulous practices, or even abuse, because their unsuspecting owners trusted a "trainer".  People, please use your investigative skills before you leave your dog in another person's care.  These are only the people who came to the attention of law enforcement - I'm sure that there are others who remain in the shadows... http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/9802/IL/US/ http://njspca.org/njspca-police-blotter_Trainer_Charged.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/203485.stm http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pc-jailed-for-dog-cruelty-1078645.html http://thespiritdog.wordpress.com/2009/01/04/no-felony-animal-cruelty-in-ohio-no-justice/ http://wweek.com/editorial/2002/10/23/dog-trainer-nailed-for-cruelty/ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/27/national/main5425529.shtml     Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

  Post Points: 0

• 11-04-2009 8:24 AM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,909 Points 655

  Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact There is a crazy case going on right now involving two well known trainers in police K9/Schutzhund and two amazing dogs that were basically neglected to death.  One had a mammary tumor that was totally abcessed and bleeding (I've seen it, I am not easily grossed out and it's shocking) and the other had heartworm and mange severe enough to be put down.  Both dogs were older but kept crated 23 hours a day and could have been easily treated for these conditions early on.  I don't know if there is an formal LE investigation in this case, but any decent persons involved with the sport will not associate with these people or with anyone that chooses to associate with them (not that this is the first time these people have been involved in shady circumstances).  Now I see a breeder/trainer I had once respected working their dogs with this person and the respect-o-meter is going down fast. I've also known good trainers to be reported by people who have their own agenda or grudge against that person, or just have no idea what they are doing/seeing. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

  Post Points: 0

• 11-04-2009 8:39 AM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  rwbeagles Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW, TX Posts 18,381 Points 2,300	Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact One should do at least as much as they'd do to research a babysitter, day care provider or private school for thier kiddos. Kind of one of those no brainers. "I'm not looking for absolution, forgiveness for the things I do.."-Walking In My Shoes, Depeche Mode My blog: ryngwrayth.blogspot.com/
  	Post Points: 0

• 11-04-2009 8:49 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  espencer Joined on 09-25-2006 St Louis Posts 3,496 Points 300

  Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact Liesje: I've also known good trainers to be reported by people who have their own agenda or grudge against that person, or just have no idea what they are doing/seeing. Amen to that I would like to see every single person that abuses a dog go to jail (and sometimes get done themselves what they did to the animals). On the other side unfortunately there are a lot of bad people out there that will accuse of the same to innocent trainers. "There are not bad dogs, only bad owners"

  Post Points: 0

• 11-04-2009 9:15 AM

  In reply to rwbeagles

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,909 Points 655

  Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact rwbeagles: One should do at least as much as they'd do to research a babysitter, day care provider or private school for thier kiddos. Kind of one of those no brainers.   Totally agree, but funny you should say it b/c I've had people jump on me for my choice of puppy-sitter/walker (because I found a nice college student missing her dog back home who was not licensed, bonded, insured, pet first aid certified, LLC, etc to come play with Nikon during the day while he was 8wks-5months) and the same people have no problem letting their niece or the teenager next door babysit their skin kids. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

  Post Points: 0

• 11-04-2009 10:25 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  rwbeagles Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW, TX Posts 18,381 Points 2,300

  Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact yep yep....the way some folks's mind works is interesting to say the least LOL. Like with placing pups referrals and such only go so far...I go so much by feel and vibe and that's seldom let me down...anytime you trust anyone else with those dear to you you take a risk. You minimize it where you can, but nothing is 100%. "I'm not looking for absolution, forgiveness for the things I do.."-Walking In My Shoes, Depeche Mode My blog: ryngwrayth.blogspot.com/

  Post Points: 0

• 11-05-2009 7:56 AM

  In reply to rwbeagles

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,729 Points 1,020

  Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact rwbeagles: yep yep....the way some folks's mind works is interesting to say the least LOL. Like with placing pups referrals and such only go so far...I go so much by feel and vibe and that's seldom let me down...anytime you trust anyone else with those dear to you you take a risk. You minimize it where you can, but nothing is 100%.   Agreed.  The license, bond, certification, insurance thing is not always a reliable indicator at all.  I know many people who are certified trainers that I wouldn't trust with a gerbil, and several trainers who have decades of service to dogs and owners, plus a wonderful reputation for kindness, knowledge and skill.  It pays to be observant, and to get to know someone long enough to make sure that the vibe you get is accurate.  Plus, it doesn't hurt to ask around...sooner or later, you get that "look" that tells you something might not be quite right, whether the person you are asking says anything damaging or not;-) Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

  Post Points: 0

• 11-05-2009 11:41 PM

  In reply to espencer

  poodleOwned Joined on 01-13-2009 Posts 112 Points 5

  Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact espencer: Liesje: I've also known good trainers to be reported by people who have their own agenda or grudge against that person, or just have no idea what they are doing/seeing.     Yes. I personally have been having a terrible time over two seperate incidents. I guess that i am a strongly posiitve trainer, but not at all permissive. I was doing something that many trainers do which is bascially enforce a recall by guiding my dog back with her collar, and pretty gentle too, and it got reported as something very nasty. I got straight out accused of doing something that i have never done or  never will do, which is track a dog  in a correction collar. I don't even own one...:( So i guess that on lookers need to be a little careful about how they report what they see.   Tch Cadbury CDX (RIP) Tch Nascere Bella Nera CDX Ch Jenuin Constanine

  Post Points: 0

• 11-07-2009 10:46 AM

  In reply to poodleOwned

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,729 Points 1,020

  Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact poodleOwned: espencer: Liesje: I've also known good trainers to be reported by people who have their own agenda or grudge against that person, or just have no idea what they are doing/seeing.     Yes. I personally have been having a terrible time over two seperate incidents. I guess that i am a strongly posiitve trainer, but not at all permissive. I was doing something that many trainers do which is bascially enforce a recall by guiding my dog back with her collar, and pretty gentle too, and it got reported as something very nasty. I got straight out accused of doing something that i have never done or  never will do, which is track a dog  in a correction collar. I don't even own one...:( So i guess that on lookers need to be a little careful about how they report what they see.        Well, I know you're right about that.  Eyewitness reports are often the *least* reliable evidence of anything.   http://www.impactlab.com/2009/01/29/how-reliable-are-eyewitness-accounts-of-a-crime/ Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

  Post Points: 0

• 11-07-2009 4:32 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  JackieG Joined on 04-15-2008 Central Texas Posts 5,924 Points 710

  Re: Animal Cruelty Reply Contact spiritdogs: The scary thing is that most people, when they call a trainer, do not even ask about how the training will be carried out, and some actually leave their dogs at board and train centers without due diligence in investigating the techniques used behind those closed doors.  They ask how much it costs, or where you are located, way more than they talk about method.    This is exactly the issue, IMO.  Go to the facility.  Talk to the assistants and the kennel help.  Drop in unannounced.  Being around pro retriever trainers for quite a few years, I know there is a broad spectrum of trainers and just because a trainer wins field trials or can show you ribbons and testimonials from happy clients doesn't always mean that person is a good trainer. Find out for yourself what his methods are and how the dogs are cared for on a day to day basis.  It surprises many people to find out just how little time some trainers spend training the  dogs and how much of the training is done by a minimum wage assistant.  The person cleaning the kennel and feeding the dogs is as important as the trainer in terms of catching health problems early. All good field trainers that I've ever known welcome a prospective client to their facility and gladly let them watch the training methods they use.  Accidents can and do happen with dogs and good trainers are devastated if a dog suffers an injury or worse while in their care.  I've known pros to leave a field trial and create many unhappy clients in order to get a dog to a Vet when necessary.  I've unfortunately known trainers who don't do the right thing.  Do your legwork and don't let a pro's reputation  be your only guide to how he or she trains and cares for the dog you entrust to him.

  Post Points: 0