Neutering

• 10-19-2009 4:13 PM

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,907 Points 655

  Neutering Reply Contact Yeah another neutering thread, lol.  I'm looking for something more than just the general spay/neuter vs. intact though.  Is there any reason to leave a 13-16 month old male dog intact OTHER than for show or breeding?  Once the dog is 13+ months is there any benefit as far as growth, hormones, maturity, etc?  Any likelihood of medical problems that correlated to neutering?  Would there be any reason not to neuter if OFAs will be done at 2 years? Please, nothing about aggression or marking, as I already believe these are partly temperament and partly training issues.  I'm interested more in medical reasons for/against and how it effects growth and maturity. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

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• 10-19-2009 6:09 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,726 Points 1,020

  Re: Neutering Reply Contact I think that's heavily dependent on breed.  IMO, there would be no benefit with a small breed, but a later maturing large breed - possibly.   I just feel that, because there doesn't seem to be any information I can find that suggests any correlation whatsoever with longevity, I would neuter even earlier in a dog that is not destined to show or breed.  The "marking" thing is partly a training issue, more a hormonal one, but why leave a dog intact, only to have to punish his normal canine behavior, which could have been prevented?  I don't get that at all.  If a dog is just as healthy, does it really matter if he is "filled out?"  And, does that even last once he is neutered late?  I don't feel my hound has the same tone he did when I adopted him as a 2+ year old intact male. I would wait longer than 4 months to spay a female, though, because there is some evidence that waiting a bit can prevent spay incontinence. Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 10-19-2009 6:54 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,907 Points 655

  Re: Neutering Reply Contact Nikon is already 13 months, still intact.  He shows but *may* have a fault (overbite that has progressively gotten better, but still there).  I was told to have it checked again at 16 months, the Koermeister that examined him Saturday said his own dog took 16 months.  I will also be doing his a-stamps (German hips and elbows) between now and then.  He marks but it's not an issue (he is not allowed to mark excessively and doesn't really try anyway, he squats to pee in our yard and anywhere that is familiar to him, he only marks where another intact male has marked which doesn't really bother me, normal canine behavior).  It matters whether the dog is filled out because these dogs can take up to three years to fully mature, physically and mentally.  If the dog has a fault, my inclination is to neuter before then.  If not, he will remain intact until then and see where he's at, at that point.  Yes, the filling out lasts.  I'm not referring to just gaining weight, but the chest dropping and the head maturing. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

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• 10-19-2009 7:08 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  sheltiemom Joined on 09-10-2007 North of Montreal, Quebec Posts 73 Points 0	Re: Neutering Reply Contact Don't know if this will help, but just received it in my emails tonight. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
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• 10-19-2009 8:30 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  Pit_Pointer_Aussie Joined on 04-13-2007 Upstate New York Posts 1,525 Points 125

  Re: Neutering Reply Contact In my experience, dogs and bitches S/N younger tend to look less mature as adults. ASCA (Australian Shepherd Club of America) has an altered show as part of each dog show, so I have seen a good number of conformation quality Aussies that are S/N. Of the males in particular, there tends to be a visible difference between those neutered younger and those neutered older. The head, chest, neck, and amount of bone are the main differences. Dogs can look feminine from the early neuter. All of my breed ring friends and most of my performance friends don't S/N until their dogs have matured fully. So after two years of age, if at all. From my experience watching Luna grow, I am no longer comfortable spaying or neutering my own dogs before two years of age, unless medically necessary. That comes from watching how slow her growth has been and the difference in her from 18 months old to two and a half years old. All our future dogs will be showing, so that's obviously a factor too. Not sure what to say, except to trust your gut on what you feel is best for him.

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• 10-19-2009 9:02 PM

  In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,907 Points 655	Re: Neutering Reply Contact Even if he cannot show anymore I don't mind keeping him intact.  But if there's a medical benefit, then I'll definitely consider it.  Right now I guess there's really no reason to do it? http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com
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• 10-19-2009 9:32 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  jennie_c_d Joined on 09-10-2007 Southeast Georgia Posts 11,083 Points 265

  Re: Neutering Reply Contact  I would really have liked to have seen Ena's chest drop, before I spayed her. I feel like she might have grown a little differently, and been a little less tall, and possibly a nicer put together dog. I definitely see a difference in dogs who are allowed to mature and dogs who aren't. Unfortunately, she had a medical reason to be spayed, so it was done when it was done. Conformation isn't a beauty contest, as you know. How the dog is put together affects it's performance, it's endurance, and in extreme cases, it's comfort.   I've gotten really funny about that, living with a bitch who was spayed at 8 weeks, and grew in height after the 2 1/2 year mark (as a 19 lb dog, that's ridiculous). I've also gotten a LOT more comfortable with intact dogs, hanging out with show dogs.

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• 10-19-2009 9:41 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  erica1989 Joined on 02-21-2007 Clearwater, Florida Posts 4,363 Points 410	Re: Neutering Reply Contact  I would say - for someone responsible, and able to contain/control their dog - there is no reason so s/n before 2-3 years. The biggest medical benefit of neutering an adult male is the elimination of testicular cancer, perennial tumors and prostate problems (infections, etc)
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• 10-19-2009 9:54 PM

  In reply to erica1989

  DougB Joined on 06-01-2009 Posts 59 Points 25

  Re: Neutering Reply Contact Read the paper at the site Sheltiemom posted. It is a Masters degree paper Titled "Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated With Spay/Neuter in Dogs" It is a review of veterinary literature on the subject and gives research based info on the subject. A good read. Some commonly held beliefs turn out to be false. While these surgeries do prevent births, there are some real effects that I wish I had known about before I had Piper spayed. I would have waited another year for more development of her body. It seems the surgery can lead to just as many bad effects as it avoids For example, while neutering removes the risk of a dogs death from testicular cancer( this risk is less than 1%),it increases the risk of osteosarcoma.. There are real considerations in making the decision. Smile, for we walked together for a little while. Bear-Lab, rescue, RIP Rags-ESS, a good dog, RIP

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• 10-19-2009 10:01 PM

  In reply to erica1989

  DougB Joined on 06-01-2009 Posts 59 Points 25

  Re: Neutering Reply Contact Read the paper at the site Sheltiemom posted. It is a Masters degree paper Titled "Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated With Spay/Neuter in Dogs" It is a review of veterinary literature on the subject and gives research based info on the subject. A good read. It is not a black and white decision. There are pluses and minuses either way you chose. I decided for Piper based only on my not wanting to deal with a bunch of puppies. I might have waited another year if I had had more info. Smile, for we walked together for a little while. Bear-Lab, rescue, RIP Rags-ESS, a good dog, RIP

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• 10-19-2009 10:35 PM

  In reply to DougB

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,907 Points 655	Re: Neutering Reply Contact Haven't read the paper yet BUT I do believe that there are *different* pros and cons when it comes to neuter vs. spay.  Again, I'm interested on input specifically on neutering/not neutering in this particular situation.  I would look at it very differently if it was a spay. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com
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• 10-20-2009 12:25 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  AgileGSD Joined on 09-16-2007 Posts 1,034 Points 65

  Re: Neutering Reply Contact Liesje: Haven't read the paper yet BUT I do believe that there are *different* pros and cons when it comes to neuter vs. spay.  Again, I'm interested on input specifically on neutering/not neutering in this particular situation.  I would look at it very differently if it was a spay.    The paper mentioned is well worth a read, not the "same old, same old" pro-altering arguement.  I guess my question is why would you want to get him neutered? Are you still going to work him even if he can't be shown? I do tend think that intact males will generally tend to be better working dogs than neutered males. And no matter what age a dog is neutered, it generally does decrease the muscling to some degree. I had two male dogs neutered and regretted having it done with both of them, as there were small but noticable changes in their personality (and looks). I'd suggest that if you like Nikon the way he is, leave him intact :)

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