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TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

Last post 11-01-2009 2:22 PM by Chuffy. 55 replies.
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  • 10-23-2009 3:19 PM In reply to Chuffy

    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    Chuffy:

    Firstly, what is "safest at the time" may not be, at first glance, the most pain-free choice.  I think safety is a better choice than pain avoidance, and that's why I'm a vaginal advocate in the majority of cases Wink

     

    I agree, I mean, why would god design vaginal delivery if that was not the best method?

    I would just personally prefer a hospital b/c of other things that can go wrong.  But I am not squeamish about hospitals or medical equipment; tubes, wires, needls, monitors....that stuff doesn't bother me.  I can understand how that might upset other people, and they'd be more comfortable at home.  I'd just rather not have a baby in my own bed or tub.  My choice would be vaginal delivery, in a hospital.  The people I know who've had babies recently toured the local hospitals' birthing wards and picked the one they liked the best, so it wasn't like they were thrown into some random room as it was happening.  Also I think many women have a very glorified view of childbirth, which I admire, I just don't *feel* the same way.  For me it is still a very dangerous, vulnerable, raw, real thing.  Probably why I'm not getting pregnant, I just don't feel that maternal instinct at all, and if I still feel the same way in a few years when we are more financially secure, we will be adopting.

    I've always understood a C-section to still be considered a fairly major surgery, though people talk about like simply getting a cavity filled.


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  • 10-23-2009 5:39 PM In reply to Chuffy

    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    Chuffy:

    .  

    sillysally:
    I would like to say that if we have kids I'll go all natural, but I know myself too well.  I have a very low pain threshold. 

    I may be reading this wrong, but pain avoidance is not a good reason to have a CS - firstly because there's no kind of guarantee that ANY birth will be completely pain-free.

    The thing about pain is, how much labour/birth hurts is affected by a wide variety of factors, and some of them are in your control and some of them are not.

    • How physically fit you are
    • How prepared you are, mentally and physically
    • How relaxed and confident you are
    • The quality and continuity of care you receive (FWIW, I trusted my midwife, so you could say that's why she was my midwife, but she was on leave when I went into labour.  Then the shift changed before William was born, so the midwife changed again.)
    • Level of intervention (for example, "purple pushing" hurts a lot and so does an episiotomy.)
    • Whether you are able to keep mobile during labour
    • Whether you deliver prone (on your back is the worst birthing position in terms of hard work, pain and potential complications, but - here's the rub - is also the "best" position for the professionals to monitor your progress and detect if anything goes wrong.)
    • Whether you receive proper perianal support
    • Whether you have loved one(s) around you to support you
    • WHERE you labour and deliver

     The place of birth is enormously important.  Generally, you will be more relaxed at home.  I thought, surely I will be more relaxed knowing there are experienced, qualified staff on hand should I need them?  But when you think about it, how many of us sleep better in our OWN bed than anywhere else?  How many of us know that in your room is the best place for a baby (or even a puppy) to sleep, because the room is a sleepy place"?  It's full of the pheremones we give off when we sleep.  It is a very relaxing place, a familiar place, a place which feels safe in our bones.  This is precisely the kind of place which almost all female mammals gravitate to when they know they are going to give birth.

    My sister has a young female dog which she got from a breeder.  Part of the contract was that this dog may be used in the breeder's breeding programme, to continue the line.  As the breeder is experienced in whelping puppies, Shady is likely to go back to her to have the puppies.  But would she be moved mid-labour?  And if she was, would anyone be surprised if labour slowed down, or complications developed?  Much more likely that she will be given time to settle in so that she labours in a place where she feels relaxed, comfortable and safe. A frightened, anxious, unsettled female is more likely to experience problems.

    When a female labours, she is vulnerable.  Therefore, if she is in in an unfamiliar place and around unfamiliar animals, her labour will slow down - almost like it is being put on hold in case she needs to run or fight at any moment.  It doesn't matter if she tells herself "this is the best place for me!"  Generations and generations of evolution have equipped us with this survival trait, and you can't control this bodily response.  The usual response to this is for hospitals to inject stuff into you to speed things up again, or break your waters for you.... despite evidence which suggests this is not in the best interests of the mother and baby in a lot of cases.

    /off soap box now.

     

     

    Yes, I believe you misunderstood me.  I meant that I don't think I could give birth without drugs, not that I'd rather give birth CS.  Actually. the thought of being AWAKE while being cut into (local or no local) makes my stomach turn.  There is no way I would just choose that option just because I could. 

    I don't think I could relax and be comfortable in my own home while giving birth.  I would be constantly worried that if something were to go wrong we'd not get to a hospital in time, etc.  I think it's great if women want to give birth at home, I just don't think it's for me.  

    ~Christina~
    Sally the Pibble Mix
    Jack the Lab


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  • 10-23-2009 10:08 PM In reply to janobonano

    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    Not a mom yet, but took a birthing class for a semester in college as part of my major. VERY interesting class and really opened my eyes to what birthing is about compared to what we have made it in the 21st century. I went from "Drug me, cut me, get it over quickly" to "as natural as we can get it would be great." I will be going to a hospital, but I also plan on having a birth plan made and a midwife advocate for me. One of the problems that women can run into is that while they are in the middle of labor, the doctor tells them that they need to alter the plan because of "x". Clearly, many women feel that they are not in the best position to make their own informed decision, so they leave it up to the doctor, who may begin using interventions that the woman did not want (epi, c-section, episio., etc.). Having a birth plan and a midwife to advocate for you can be key in keeping mom as stress-free as possible, while making sure that if the birth plan MUST be altered, that there is good reason to do so other than convenience or money.

    I also read an interesting article that said a study linked c-section babies to a higher rate of lung/asthma/bronchial problems that vag-birthed babies. Reason being that the heavy contractions that occur when the baby is in the birth canal are nature's way of clearing the lungs of fluid to prepare the baby to take a breath of air after birth. C-sectioned babies never get to go through those strong contractions and have their lungs compressed and cleared in that way, leading to a higher chance of bronchial problems later; doctors, of course, suction out the baby's nose/mouth after birth, but we are a poor substitute for nature. DH and I both have had asthma/bronchial issues, so unless there is a strong medical reason why I must have a c-section, I plan on going naturally for that reason as well.

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  • 10-23-2009 10:42 PM In reply to stormyknight

    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

     See, watching things like Baby Story, taking a class on child development where birthing was covered, etc, has made me less likely to do it without drugs.  If I'd gone into it without seeing those things, I'd be all for natural.  Now...well, I guess i've just seen one too many women screaming in agony in their bath tubs....

    ~Christina~
    Sally the Pibble Mix
    Jack the Lab


    "Fifteen men on the dead man's chest-
    Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!"
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  • 10-23-2009 11:11 PM In reply to sillysally

    • stardog85
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    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    Isn't it interesting how different people see the same things so uniquely?  I see A Baby Story and go - "holy crap that woman has been chained to her bed because of IVs and continuous monitoring equipment for *9 hours* (or 12, or 18...), I would be going stir crazy!". Smile

    Erin, the Amazing Maggie Mae, Ziva the Wonder Dog, and Kestrel the Up and Coming



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  • 10-23-2009 11:22 PM In reply to stardog85

    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    Two c-sections here, but I don't think #2 really needed to be.  It was just that back then the rule was "once a section, always a section." Also I think a long time ago they made a vertical incision so the uterus was more likely to tear during another labor.  Mine were both what they called a "bikini cut" which was low and horizontal, so not much chance of a rupture.  No problems with breast feeding either time. I wasn't about to let anyone put me to sleep, so I just had a local with both of them and I think that made a difference ... not  being groggy or drugged.

    Joyce

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  • 10-24-2009 2:29 AM In reply to fuzzy_dogs_mom

    • Bullymom
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    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

     Madison's birth is a day that I will never forget!!  The doctors started the induction on Wed. night and she still wasn't born until Fri. night at 7:30!!  I'll start by saying that if the doc would have given my the choice, I would have gone for a c-section!!  From the time that the induction was started (Wed night) until Friday morning, I had dialated to 1/2 cm.  That's it!!!  Finally around 4pm, the doc insisted that I get a spinal block which numbed me from the boobs, down and he had to take a funky looking spoon thing and rip through my cervix because I wouldn't dialate anymore.  By the time my meds wore off around 6:45, I was finally at 10 and ready to push.  I pushed for 45 minutes and she FINALLY came out!!  I was actually watching the Crocodile Hunter in between pushes!!  When it was time for the "after birth" to come out, the doc took the cord and started pulling and then he just said "UH-OH!"  He turned to te nurse and said "I need one of the long gloves."  I had no idea what he was about to do!  The snapped that glove on and went "Deep Sea Diving" in my hooha!!  He was up to his elbow by the time he managed to retrieve his "treasure".  After that, he wqs sitting on his stool with his needle, going to town like a semstress!!  All in all, recovery was only moderately painfull.  I didn't need any meds but I have a very high pain tolerance.  The most painfull part was the first ummm bowel movement.  Now THAT hurt like h***!!  The good thing though, I was back in my pre-baby jeans within 2 weeks!!  Now, if only I could lose weight that fast now Huh?



    ~*Kimberly*~
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  • 10-24-2009 9:42 AM In reply to janobonano

    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    I am very afraid of having kids. Not of raising them, but HAVING them, lol. I'm not anywhere remotely close to thinking about being a mom but right now I have the "hand over the drugs" attitude. I want it as pain-free as possible...I just don't understand why God made it such a tight fit, quite honestly. : /

    ~ISGrl
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  • 10-24-2009 10:48 AM In reply to IrishSetterGrl

    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    I didn't read everyones responses but here is my feeling.  I had two children "natural" and one with a epidural (sp) if I had a choice of surgery or not - I would never elect surgery for no good reason.  If the choice were mine, I would opt for childbirth.  Plus, there is nothing like childbirth its an experience that warms my heart.  I delivered all my kids within 6 hours of labor, no complications etc and the pain is not something anyone can describe who has never been there - its cramps not pain like you think.  When its over, its over!  Good luck and healthy baby!!

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  • 10-24-2009 11:02 AM In reply to luvmyswissy

    • ottoluv
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    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    This is an interesting topic! It's like religion in medicine and I personally believe there is no better or best way. I'll tell you my thoughts as a physician and a friend/sister/etc. since I haven't had the joy yet of having a baby. A c-section is safer for the baby statistically, and a vaginal birth is safer for the mom. That's a little bit older data and they are probably a wash for mom's now and c-section is still safer for the baby. For the surgery literature, which is what I know more about ;) women who have vaginal births have really high rates of sphincter dysfunction (on your buns yes ;)) even if you don't have symptoms of incontinence something like 1/3 of women have significant damage to the muscles down there on ultrasound. So you are more likely to have issues later in life with pee and poo. For me, I'll probably elect for a c-section. I think there is no right or wrong answer, only what is best for you as long as you are thinking about you AND your baby.


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  • 10-24-2009 11:13 AM In reply to ottoluv

    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    ottoluv:
    So you are more likely to have issues later in life with pee and poo.

    Ok,, maybe this is bad to say, but I'm a little ..."pleased"?... to learn that I will be at some kind of advantage if/when I have a baby and c-section, since I don't really have a choice in the matter.  Thanks Kelly!!  I can brag about a tighter sphincter when the time comes to compare birth stories. lmbo!

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  • 10-24-2009 2:16 PM In reply to Liesje

    • Chuffy
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    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

     

    Liesje:
    I would just personally prefer a hospital b/c of other things that can go wrong.  But I am not squeamish about hospitals or medical equipment; tubes, wires, needls, monitors....that stuff doesn't bother me.  I can understand how that might upset other people, and they'd be more comfortable at home. 

     Thanks for replying Lies!  It took a long time to write that, because I was so concerned it might offend some people and I really don't want to do that!  But, since I am having another baby, and considering my options again, this is something close to home for me. 

    I am not a squeamish person either, and tubes and things don't "worry" me, as such.  I had William in a hospital last time, because I also wanted to be in the "right place should anything go wrong".  That was part of my learning experience, that being in the "right place in case it goes wrong", is also more LIKELY to make things go wrong.  (the part about being "prone" just about sums up the whole shebang actually.) 

    I am more concerned about the physiological response of moving to a different, less familiar place during labour, and also the physiological response of having not-very-well-known people nearby/high level of interference. 

    I don't agree with some of the prophylactic measures taken by hospitals, and the best way to avoid them is not to be there.  It's HARD to fight your corner and have your wishes obeyed when you are in labour, because you ARE vulnerable, and you ARE consumed by something else being on your mind.  It's very easy to let the professionals take over, in the belief that they are trained and want only the BEST for you and your baby.  Not always true I'm afraid.  Make it predictable.  Prevent every problem imaginable.  This CAUSES more problems, but if there is a lawsuit, they will be seen to be doing everythiong they can, right?  Yeah that's right, my mother thought Cynical was a nice middle name for a girl. Drugs, by the way, only make it harder for many (dare I say most?) women to remain lucid, in control and not-panicking, yet it's very hard to NOT have drugs in some hospitals. 

    Don't get me wrong; if you (general) genuinely feel that being at home would FRIGHTEN you, because if it goes wrong you're up a certain creek without a certain instrument, then maybe being in a hospital is the best place, where you will be LESS frightened.  Plus, *IF* there is good breastfeeding support at the hospital, that is a strong reason to take advantage of that facility and be in the right place where you can have hands on assistance *immediately, should you need it! 

    BUT, that said, I think it's important to make the point that being at home does not equal unassisted birth - most women who birth at home have a trained midwife with them.  If everything goes smoothly, then home is where they stay.  If things do not go smoothly, and the woman or baby are deemed to be at risk - off to hospital they go.  If I understand it correctly, your choices are far harder in the US.  If you have previously had a CS, many care givers insist that you birth in hospital and don't try to have a home birth, otherwise you can't use their services. Sometimes your insurance won't cover you if you choose a homebirth.

    I absolutely agree that some mothers have a glorified view of childbirth - whereas in reality it IS pretty raw, it can be unpredictable.  I get that totally and agree.  In fact, I think it contributes to a high level of intervention and CSs!!  Many women think it's all going to be magical, hurt a bit, a bit of dignified straining and out pops a perfectly healthy baby, all prefectly predictable.  It's not like that, and as soon as that becomes apparent, the woman panics and accepts all kinds of interventions, which in many cases only complicate matters further. 

    Saying it's raw and not all fairies and rainbows is one thing but - and this is a big but - a labouring woman is not ill.  Nor is she automatically in a high risk category just because she is about to give birth.  I think I understand what you mean when you say "raw", and I do agree, but that said it's important to note that the hysteria that surrounds birth is not helpful. 



    "Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, but set fire to him and he is warm for the rest of his life." - Pratchett, "Jingo"

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  • 10-24-2009 2:30 PM In reply to sillysally

    • Chuffy
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    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    sillysally:

     See, watching things like Baby Story, taking a class on child development where birthing was covered, etc, has made me less likely to do it without drugs.  If I'd gone into it without seeing those things, I'd be all for natural.  Now...well, I guess i've just seen one too many women screaming in agony in their bath tubs....

     

    I thought it was possible that I might have misunderstood you.  THere are pros and cons to drugs just like anything else, but  more cons than pros I think.

    Oooohhh... Do not.  Get me started.  On Baby Story!!!!!

    Is it true that in the US it is not standard practice to have a midwife attend your birth?



    "Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, but set fire to him and he is warm for the rest of his life." - Pratchett, "Jingo"

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  • 10-24-2009 2:33 PM In reply to IrishSetterGrl

    • Chuffy
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    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    IrishSetterGrl:

    I am very afraid of having kids. Not of raising them, but HAVING them, lol. I'm not anywhere remotely close to thinking about being a mom but right now I have the "hand over the drugs" attitude. I want it as pain-free as possible...I just don't understand why God made it such a tight fit, quite honestly. : /

     

    God did not make it a tight fit.,  God made it corsetina'ed and designed to stretch.  Your vagina is BUILT to birth a baby.  YOU make it a tight fit by being so terrified of it!!  Wink  Fear makes you tense, tense makes you tight, tight makes it hurt, hurt makes you frightened, fear makes you tense....  See?



    "Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, but set fire to him and he is warm for the rest of his life." - Pratchett, "Jingo"

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  • 10-24-2009 2:37 PM In reply to ottoluv

    • Chuffy
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    Re: TMI Poll for moms: c-section or natural?

    ottoluv:
    So you are more likely to have issues later in life with pee and poo.
     

    Is it not true that age and physical fitness play a large part in this, and that older women who have never had children have also had pee/poo incontinence?

    Or am I thinking of pelvic floor problems, and are they not the same thing?  



    "Give a man a fire and he is warm for a day, but set fire to him and he is warm for the rest of his life." - Pratchett, "Jingo"

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