Grooming

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

ron2 — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:48:36 GMT

It's my fault and I apologize. I should have started a separate thread for a primer in this type of dog showing.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

Benedict — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:05:13 GMT

Admin speaking,

Please take this thread back to topic and start new threads to discuss other things.

Thanks.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

ron2 — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 12:36:10 GMT

Liesje:
My breeder took her homebred bitch in heat to the show, and after watching males for three days straight she chose Gorbi and bred her bitch to Gorbi after the show.

I guess it was the right place if the purpose was to evaluate breeding stock.

I could swear in the pics you've shared of Nikon, has some slope to him. Maybe not enough to be a factor and it's hard to tell when they are just stumbling puppies.

I figured you were going to get into breeding, anyway. The posts about your breeder's comments about Nikon, your post about what it takes to enforce a neuter clause in the contract. As in, what could your breeder actually do about it if you just breed Nikon by your own design, which is not to say that you won't do a good job. You might do better if you go by working lines and such criteria as SCH. I think your breeder has some faults in the lines and they are unsalvagable. You might be doing a favor to the line by breeding away from that. Momma carries all the genes. Breeding a male out of the line offers a 50 percent chance of taking a step away. And then you will find how hard it is to enforce a contract. But, hopefully, it will remain hobby breeding for you and others, who truly desire to have rock solid dogs for SCH.

I would like to think that even though 3 days may help in evaluating a dog that there is more to the decision to breed than just "mm, good color." I think that's a wrong criteria. The moment you look to something like color or even a particular gait, you take your eyes off temperment and workability. Workability will certainly dictate some structure.

Liesje:
would make myself a note in my catalog, but then I would talk to the breeder or owner, go meet that dog, and make a final decision

That might make a suitable list of bitches for Nikon in a year or two.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

Liesje — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:20:47 GMT

moved to the conformation forum

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

ron2 — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:45:51 GMT

Liesje:
Differences in temperament become evident b/c there is gun fire, loud crowds that scream and rattle toys at the dogs, a ring full of 50 dogs literally running up each others' backs, etc. It's clear when a dog is very soft or nervy, they do not show well at all.

Actually, I can understand that. Is the conformation, then, more along the lines of temperment and general structure, as in a good frame that is quick and agile? And, if so, let us hope that there is a tendency to get away from a dramatic rear slope. I've seen some dogs hobbled by it. Is all this something of a precursor to a temperment test and a BH test? It certainly can have as many details as other breeding. For example, I read that one should, in getting a puppy with a SCH future, examine the temperment and or SCH titles of the parents. Even, I suppose, how many of the pups in a given litter have stable temperment. Which I think is good. I think dogs should be bred for temperment and workability, in that order, rather than an exact physical dimension or a cosmetic effect.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

ron2 — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 23:40:49 GMT

KarissaKS:

Ron, it's conformation showing, not obedience. The judges are very lenient with the puppies and don't expect pristine & perfect behavior from them. It's good to get puppies in the ring at an early age so that they get used to the environment.

Actually, it makes sense to get them in shows as early as possible to get used to the environment. I had just assumed there would be more obedience before then. As Liese says, there are some antics going on that one would not see at later shows.

The only thing that confuses me is the conformation. When I think of conformation, I can't help but think of AKC-like shows where in the dog needs to fit within physical dimensions, coloration, etc. And again, I just imagined that obedience would be judge-worthy too, even if not perfect.

As you can tell, I don't know enough about it to be dangerous.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

Liesje — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:24:08 GMT

moved to the conformation forum

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

KarissaKS — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:19:28 GMT

Ron, it's conformation showing, not obedience. The judges are very lenient with the puppies and don't expect pristine & perfect behavior from them. It's good to get puppies in the ring at an early age so that they get used to the environment.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

ron2 — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:17:39 GMT

Well, good luck. I just never thought of shows for a dog to be in unless they were already close to a year old. Primarily because of how long I might expect obedience training to take to the point of being CGC-worthy. But evidently you can show dogs at 3 months. I certainly didn't know that but it's neat to learn new things.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

Liesje — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 02:40:47 GMT

moved to the conformation forum

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

ron2 — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:44:25 GMT

Liesje:
but I did Nikon last night, his first show is next month and this is the first I've cut his nails

Pardon my blonde moment. Nikon in a show? Wow, he must be learning fast. Is it some kind of working dog show? If I remember, he's from working lines. Or this maybe too OT to ask.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

Liesje — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:00:30 GMT

rwbeagles:
I do give praise and such but never when they're being turds.

LOL, yeah I'm a "no pain no gain" kinda person. I'm not averse to holding an animal down and just hacking them off, lol, my neighbors are probably calling the ACO. I don't cut their quick and I try to get it done fast. As soon as it's over I start jumping around squealing and he thinks it was the greates thing ever. First time I tried it, didn't work b/c I wasn't prepared for how hard a 10 week old can struggle! Last night I let him play till tired, then did the massage and restraint exercises and after that it was not too difficult even with no helper and my cheap clippers.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

rwbeagles — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:56:16 GMT

I put them on the table, put the noose on, and I do their nails. In Cleo's case...I lay her down and do them...since day 1. He will need to be used to being UP on a table for the extensive grooming he will be undergoing at shows...so get the table...get him up there...and do a nail...if you get just one...that's fine...do something he likes first...like combing...then hold his foot then coo at him then flick it with your fingernail and coo at him. Then Dremel it.

If you don't stay on top of it, yes it will affect many things and he may need to go under to have them done. Do not let that quick get too long.

I do give praise and such but never when they're being turds. Only when I am actually Dremeling...then I sing a song to them...usually Double Dutch Bus.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

Liesje — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 16:46:37 GMT

Not sure how big your pup is, but I did Nikon last night, his first show is next month and this is the first I've cut his nails. He's about 30lbs now, very strong already. I let him play around a bit to get tired. Then I started doing these calming and restraint exercises the breeder showed me, I got him down on his side and was massaging his face to calm him down. For the past few days, we've worked on me massaging his feet and gripping them tight while I feed him. Well his nails have become like cat claws so I decided to just do it even though the breeder said it would be more important to acclimate him slowly. Once he was calmer from the massage, I sat on my butt with my legs out in front of me and pulled him on my lap, so he was sitting on my lap. I sort of held him and stroked him for a while, working my hands down to his feet and squeezing on them. There were some struggles but I treated it like our other restraint practice and kept at it. Eventually I did all his nails, most of them I did twice over b/c I wanted to go shorter, using a cheap dog clipper. I have a dremmel but can't for the life of me figure it out and I have little patience so I use a clipper on all my dogs (and cats). DH kept asking me if I wanted him to hold Nikon but honestly it's easier when I do it myself. DH doesn't hold him tight enough, or holds him too tight in the wrong places. What prompted our session last night was I was doing rag work with Nikon where I hold his collar while he gets aggitated and then release him to "packen" (bite) and tug. At one point I grabbed his collar and he turned and bit me, so we need more work on restraint and being touched from behind.

Re: I need nail help.(kle1986)

jennie_c_d — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 02:05:47 GMT

Yes, you have to keep his nails super short. It affects the way his feet lay, and the way he gaits.

Put some peanut butter on the fridge, and see if he likes that, LOL. Don't dremel him, just yet. Hold his foot, while he licks it. In a week, set the dremel near him, while he licks it. Then, turn it on, while he licks it. Go slowly, and you'll get there. That's how I had to teach Emma to get her nails done. She had a traumatic nail experience, as a puppy (nail was cut off AT THE FOOT with no pain meds), and she was BAD about it.... I just took it slow, and she's great, now.