Diseases & Conditions

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

calliecritturs — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:37:09 GMT

I'm a bit surprised you really thot the Elavil *would* work. This is why I said way above that the meds a vet would prescribe probably wouldn't work -- because these are essentially being used to moderate mood-swings, and I don't think that's what this is. If she's pre-seizury as I suspect this sort of med just isn't going to do a bit of good (no more than the melatonin -- very similar in what they're trying to do in the body).

If it's neural -- as I said above -- the only thing a "regular" or allopathic vet is going to do is put her on phenobarbitol or potassium bromide or similar. Pricey and VERY full of side-effects. The Chinese herbs aren't like that -- they do similar things to phenobarbitol but without the side effects because of how the body absorbs/uses them.

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

brookcove — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:43:50 GMT

Dogs metabolize meds very differently than people. I had a dog on elavil and it never affected her energy levels at all either. It did reduce her impulse control, which turned out to be a bad thing for her (note: never put a fear aggressive dog on "mellowing" meds).

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

Liesje — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:48:41 GMT

Still no effect. She was more outgoing and social than usual at SchH on Friday, but I can't say whether that is meds or just her in a good mood. I'm not sure what her dosage is, 50mg? I'd have to check at home. I guess no side effects is a good thing. Maybe she really is a head case! She got up to 3 melatonins at a time and that also had zero effect. She only weighs 55lbs!

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

jennie_c_d — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:42:23 GMT

Elavil also affects me immediately. They put me on it for migraines. I took 1/2 of a 5 mg pill, once a day, for a month. Then, I had to stop being a zombie, and take care of my dogs, do my job, etc. I still had migraines, but didn't care. I slept a LOT, and was generally blah. I would call and ask about it. It's probably good to keep doing it to see whether it makes a difference, but I'm always in the vet's face, LOL.

Emma's medicine is shockingly inexpensive, too. It's $12.50 for a bottle that lasts 2 months. I was shocked!

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

calliecritturs — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:44:22 GMT

Elavil will make me almost completely comatose at a very small dose! They use it a lot for both pain management and depression. I used to take it for migrains many years ago -- I used to break those wee tiny pills into 1/4s or 1/6s -- and STILL couldn't stay awake to live. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz LOL

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

Liesje — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:21:57 GMT

elavil

Today I took her to meet a friend's dog that's been kinda humpy and hormonal toward other dogs lately. Kenya is the kind that will NOT back down, but also won't pick a huge fight either and won't hold a gruge (she will snap at a dog if it is rude but then play with it as long as it's not rude). They had some initial snarks but then she did her play bows, they chased each other for a bit and lied down really close, didn't bug each other at all walking out to the cars (long ways). I was worried b/c the vet said the side effect to watch for would be irritability and she has always been very confident and good with other dogs (much more so than people). So, that went really well and we trust those dogs together.

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

calliecritturs — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:29:52 GMT

I don't think I missed it but what meds did they put her on??

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

Liesje — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:13:48 GMT

Well it's been a week now and I've been watching her closely. No bad side effects yet. She doesn't seem any different (still spinning, hiding, acting crazy with the crates). I guess no bad changes is a good thing. Probably takes a few weeks before we can tell if there's any difference?

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

calliecritturs — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:09:49 GMT

The Chi Institute is just *one* qualifying agency for acupuncture/Traditonal Chinese Veterinary medicine, but it's the only one I know of that actually qualifies the vet in Chinese herbology as well as acupuncture.

http://www.tcvm.com -- on the left is a locator.-- you can do it by zip code or state, and go out to an extended radius. The herbs Kee is on are way less than that but I've never had to do bloodwork either. Her primary herbal is Di Tan Tang which is very close to phenabarb. That particular herb is one of Dr. Xie's own blends and it is a 'prescription' herb (there's nothing like it in our Western herbs at all-- it's nothing you could just walk into a store and buy).

But this is also something you can approach later as you need or want to.

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

Liesje — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:06:59 GMT

I'm open to it provided I can even find someone who does it and I can afford it. As much as I love my dogs I *do* have a financial limit in fairness to the rest of the dogs (and so far she has been perfectly manageable without any sort of treatment, doesn't have any "medical" manifestestions of the anxiety such as seizures, breaking teeth from chewing, granuloma, etc. I would just like her to be happier and more relaxed in general). I was worried about the cost of meds (ANY meds) but the ones they wanted to try are $15/month. Luckily they are not putting her on a seizure med. I know a lot about those since DH has been on them 4 pills a day for years now (he had to switch b/c the one he was originall on causes osteoperosis with long term use). We don't like the cost or side effects one bit but if he still has seizures, he can't drive, so he can't work (he sometimes drives a handicap accessible van for his jobs). I actually want him off the drugs but he won't try it, he is terrified of the seizures and would rather have the side effects,and since I don't know what having a grand mal seizure is like I guess I can't push it.

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

sl2crmeg — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:41:21 GMT

It really does help, Lies - Pirate doesn't have full blown seizures, necessarily. He's just 'seizurey'. For example, he'll sniff the same spot in our carpet for at least 5 minutes if I don't go get him. Or he'll lick his lips and lick lick lick liiiick lick lick...

I can tell when it's getting close to our appointment, because he gets noticeably more uncomfortable. During the cool months he only goes every 8 weeks or so. IMO it's worth trying...it really can't hurt too much. When Pirate STARTED having full seizures I wish I would have gone the TCVM route - the seizure medicine made him SO sick and has left him with life-long consequences. Not to mention the $5,000 (no, not a typo - five THOUSAND easily) that we spent getting him well again.

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

Liesje — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 03:15:47 GMT

Sorry callie I got my "h" mixed up, I meant holistic.

This is the one around here. The site made it seem a little over the top but my trainer said her friend goes there and recommends it.

http://www.holisticvetoptions.com/

She gave me amiltriptyline. I had a bad experience giving this to a cat (or rather, my friend had to give it to her cat), but it turned out the cat actually had FIP which it died from, but it was creating all these behavior problems and the kooky vet gave her elavil. So I guess I shouldn't judge based on that.

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

calliecritturs — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 03:02:56 GMT

I actually just got home from having Billy and Kee to see Dr. DiNatale and I talked with her quite a bit about Kenya (Yeah, I do that, but she also knows Pirate and about the Board, and sometimes I'll talk to her about a dog to see if *she* thinks it might be worthwhile for someone out of state).

In honesty, it would be the Chinese herbs that would likely help far more than just acupuncture, for all the reasons I mentioned before. They are very very similar to many pharmaceuticals, they just don't have the negative effects on the liver. Be aware that if you start pheno or any other seizure drug, that also means you'll have to blood test every 3 months (maybe more at the start) to check the levels in the blood. That is honestly one of the many ways that TCVM just isn't as expensive as many folks assume it is -- you don't have to monitor the blood like that because there just isn't the side effects from the herbs.

Were you looking into a homeopathic vet as well? That would be a whole different thing -- I know they use homeopathy with brain stuff, but probably not as frequently as TCVM.

Be aware -- very often holistic vets just don't have the same sort of office set up that a regular vet does. They usually don't have a big office or a big staff -- often they just have their cell phone and travel to you. But don't expect the same sort of receptionist/office set up -- and typically not when someone is really good.

Honestly, I usually tell folks to avoid that big huge practice that has one "holistic vet" on staff -- often they aren't there all the time, and typically they don't see regular patients or have clients that visit often. Sometimes I get disappointed because I see them almost more as an accessory rather than there to treat in-depth cases.

The vet who has struck out on their own may be a bit disorganized or repeatedly get home too late to return calls, but it can often mean they're just plain busy and in demand. Most of the time I encourage folks to call 6-8 different holistic vets and talk to each of them. Guaranteed you'll be completely out of patience with at least two of them, and 3 may totally rub you the wrong way. Then hopefully you'll have a couple you can really "like" and choose between. But you may have to travel a bit to see them -- but it shouldn't be something you'd need to have her seen "often" for. Like I said -- my guess is that the herbs are likely going to be far more help than simply acupuncture. This isn't something you want to 'cure' as much as modify and maintain (if that makes ANY sense at all.)

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

Liesje — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:12:18 GMT

Back from the vet. It was the vet I like. There are several vets there and I can't always remember which one is which but it happened to be the one I've liked from before (and Kenya licked her face, lol). It was funny b/c Kenya was really happy to be there. She was excited that *she* got to "come along" and the boys had to stay home. I wish DH had been there, so I could have show Kenya to the vet, then asked DH to come in and she could see the behavior change, but he had to take his class to Detroit and isn't home yet. Basically we just went over all the behaviors, the dog's medical history, what we've tried. Like Callie and Becca, she believes it is a "brain" thing and not a behavior thing, mainly because it manifests itself sort of randomly, and doesn't seem to effect her in ways that it would normally effect a dog (ie, enjoying going to the vet, being fine at dog shows, being reliable in the house when I leave her). She also found it interesting that Kenya is normal with dogs, she is the alpha bitch, never been in a dog fight, loves playing with other dogs. She wanted to try meds and do the behavior stuff at the same time, hoping the meds will help take the edge off, and the behavior work will start getting somewhere. I explained that my problem was not controlling or managing the behaviors, but that my dog is not happy at home. She asked how long Kenya spins "ten minutes?" she said and I said I don't know b/c I'd never let it go that long but she probably would!

I did ask my trainer/behaviorist about accupuncter b/c her dog got it and she didn't think it would be worth the time or money for Kenya. She said it worked for her dog for just a few days at a time, and was more for a physical problem (stimulating muscle after a surgery, though the dog does have some anxiety over storms and such).

I never got a call back from the homeopathic person, so I guess I can go ahead and give the meds a try....we'll go back in a few weeks to re-assess.

Re: Meds for anxiety? I really need help....

kpwlee — Sun, 31 May 2009 15:36:37 GMT

**moderator speaking**

Thank you to those who are on topic and offering suggestions appropriate to being in the Health section of the forum

No more behavior mod posts in this thread please. If the OP were asking for advice on behavior I am sure they would have put their post there. They did not, so cease to address this with behavioral suggestions.

And a reminder to be respectful or walk away

Thank you,

Karen