ball-drive

• 07-06-2009 9:37 AM

  tex123 Joined on 04-28-2009 Posts 49 Points 0

  ball-drive Reply Contact Whats the fastest method to teach a dog to  retrieve a ball. (increase ball drive) I have new dogs every month with NO BALL DRIVE!, sometimes i wonder if they would chase a rabbit! I need to get their focus off me and on to the ball. I work with all breeds all ages and i need to develope strong ball drive in just a few days so i can use the ball to increase prey drive. any Ideas?

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• 07-06-2009 9:40 AM

  In reply to tex123

  iluvjamison Joined on 09-17-2007 NJ Posts 1,397 Points 5	Re: ball-drive Reply Contact I am certainly no expert - but Jamison will only chase a ball that squeeks.  It's the noise of the ball gets him interested.  He couldn't care less about a ball or any other toy that doesn't squeek or make some kind of noise.   Deb W. My Beagle Boy - Jamison
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• 07-06-2009 9:57 AM

  In reply to tex123

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,901 Points 655

  Re: ball-drive Reply Contact tex123: Whats the fastest method to teach a dog to  retrieve a ball. (increase ball drive) I have new dogs every month with NO BALL DRIVE!, sometimes i wonder if they would chase a rabbit! I need to get their focus off me and on to the ball. I work with all breeds all ages and i need to develope strong ball drive in just a few days so i can use the ball to increase prey drive. any Ideas?   Back-tie. Nikon had no ball drive until he was about 4 months, but by back-tying we had developed high prey drive in general, mostly for a rag.  I threw the rag away and used the ball until he transfered.  Now he would tear a hole in the wall to get at the ball.  For puppies I think back-tying is the best way to build drive and the best thing to do at home as far as drive building (all other stuff should only be done with the help of the TD or the dog's bitework/protection gets royally screwed). I've seen that doing too much obedience and focus work can hinder the drive development.  I'm not one that believes in kenneling/crating a dog in order to starve them of attention in order to build drive and motivation to work, BUT if all the people are doing is obedience and focus often the result is a dog who won't think very independently, will look at a ball or prey object and not know what to do and just stare at the owner instead. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

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• 07-07-2009 12:09 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  espencer Joined on 09-25-2006 St Louis Posts 3,496 Points 300	Re: ball-drive Reply Contact Liesje: Back-tie. Nikon had no ball drive until he was about 4 months, but by back-tying we had developed high prey drive in general   You mean tying your dog to a tree? "There are not bad dogs, only bad owners"
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• 07-07-2009 12:35 AM

  In reply to espencer

  griffinej5 Joined on 09-10-2007 Pa Posts 2,771 Points 60	Re: ball-drive Reply Contact  I think she means back chaining actually. Luke naturally has a good ball drive, but is crazier for things that squeak. He'll go for a much longer time if the toy squeaks.  Emperor of the Markie Fan Club
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• 07-07-2009 7:51 AM

  In reply to espencer

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,901 Points 655	Re: ball-drive Reply Contact espencer: Liesje: Back-tie. Nikon had no ball drive until he was about 4 months, but by back-tying we had developed high prey drive in general   You mean tying your dog to a tree?   A tree, a post, a back-tie, have someone hold the leash....doesn't really matter. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com
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• 07-07-2009 7:52 AM

  In reply to griffinej5

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,901 Points 655	Re: ball-drive Reply Contact griffinej5:  I think she means back chaining actually.   No, backchaining is for a formal retrieve, doesn't really help  drive, especially if you're working with tiny puppies. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com
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• 07-07-2009 9:00 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  jdata Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 772 Points 2,575

  Re: ball-drive Reply Contact She means to work on the 'opposition reflex'. When you hold a dog back, it wants to pull more thus creating more drive to get to the ball or anything really thus getting it to a point of frustration. Hence why you do restrained recalls in flyball and agility, you call for the dog and end result is a dog that flat out hauls ass to you Julian & the "bullet jacks" (Scout & Chloe) facebook: julian data

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• 07-07-2009 9:12 AM

  In reply to jdata

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,901 Points 655

  Re: ball-drive Reply Contact And, the dog is not rewarded with the toy until the appropriate level of drive is reached (appropriate being totally different for each dog, age, purpose...).  Using the back-tie means you can work on it alone.  I use a back-tie but I have the opposite problem, my dog is so ball driven he has missed and bit my face, thighs, stomach, boobs, lol.  I need a back-tie to give myself control. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

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• 07-07-2009 10:22 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  espencer Joined on 09-25-2006 St Louis Posts 3,496 Points 300	Re: ball-drive Reply Contact How much that can hurt the dog's neck? "There are not bad dogs, only bad owners"
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• 07-07-2009 10:56 AM

  In reply to espencer

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,901 Points 655	Re: ball-drive Reply Contact espencer: How much that can hurt the dog's neck?   I don't know, I don't put anything on a puppy's neck. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com
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• 07-07-2009 10:59 AM

  In reply to Liesje

  tex123 Joined on 04-28-2009 Posts 49 Points 0	Re: ball-drive Reply Contact Thanks lies, Sorry for the delayed response. This sounds promising, would you please elaborate?
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• 07-07-2009 11:04 AM

  In reply to tex123

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,901 Points 655

  Re: ball-drive Reply Contact tex123: Sorry for the delayed response. This sounds promising, would you please elaborate?   It really depends on the dog and the level they are at.  If I back-tie my dog, I expect him to absolutely light up, barking non stop and frothing at the mouth if I simply present a ball and drop it out of his reach.  But he is high ball drive (and he did not come that way).  For a puppy, all I would expect is any sort of prey response, and definitely reward any bark (but some dogs won't bark, so waiting for a bark is expecting too much).  I would not do it for more than 2-3 minutes.  Put the ball away while the dog is still in drive, hasn't got tired or bored.  You're probably best off getting with a good TD/helper who trains using balls.  I can try to make a video if you want, at least of how I do it. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

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• 07-07-2009 12:13 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  espencer Joined on 09-25-2006 St Louis Posts 3,496 Points 300

  Re: ball-drive Reply Contact Liesje: espencer: How much that can hurt the dog's neck?   I don't know, I don't put anything on a puppy's neck.   Really? then you might have more than 1 "puppy". Now that we clarified that you actually put "something" on your dog's neck (regardless if he is 4 months old or older) and the point is not if you should do it to a puppy or wait for him to be older. I know you are against leash corrections, how much force do you think it's applied to the dog's neck with this exercise?   Liesje:  ....back-tie the Puppah to a tree and going nuts!  Too much fun! (Sorry 'bout the pics, the light was very bright and DH took most of them) Oh, well I love you too! Crap, he wasn't supposed to get it that time! LOL, I wasn't beating my dog, I swear! I tried a stack but I screwed it up again! "There are not bad dogs, only bad owners"

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• 07-07-2009 12:27 PM

  In reply to espencer

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,901 Points 655

  Re: ball-drive Reply Contact That's not ball drive building, that is bitework, and the dog is already trained, far more mature physically and mentally.  He knows the "game" and he knows what is expected of him.  I don't need to build drive, we are working on targeting and grip in that exercise (4th pic the grip is good, 9th pic it is bad).  I do not see a ball in those pictures, or a dog that needs to work on drive building.   I would not do any of that with a little puppy, totally different exercises.  For building ball drive, if you want to be safe, just use a harness.  It's not that complicated. Also, I'm not sure what it has to do with this topic or anything, but I use leash corrections.  To think you can train every dog every skill using the exact same method is ludicris, IMO. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

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