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drastic change in dog after vaccines

Last post 03-31-2009 12:48 AM by sandra_slayton. 4 replies.
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  • 03-29-2009 10:08 AM

    drastic change in dog after vaccines

    I have an 8 year old femal chocolate lab.

    Yesterday morning she received vaccines for Lyme and Bordetallo (both of which she she has received before).  Mid-day she received her monthly dose of frontline plus and interceptor.  She also had har nails clipped (not sure that that really matters)

    By dinner time she seemed very tired....we just thought is was from the excitement of the vet earlier in the day and an afternoon of playing in the yard. 

    By bed time, we could not get her to stand.  With significant encouraging, we finally got her to stand.  She would not put her tight rear leg down and her tail was down straight.  She was extremelt lethargic.

    Her ears were extremely red.....not just the inner part but all the way out to the tips.

    Her breathing was somewhat labored.

    We took her to a 24-hour emergency room (not her normal vet).  The lameness in her leg seemed to move from leg to leg at this point. They administered an injection of benadryl (or equivilent) but seemed to be focusing on arthiritis.  While she is getting up there in years and have exhibited some early signs in here right front leg, I can't imagine that severe symptons would show up in a few hours.

    It seems like it must be tied to the vaccines.  She seems only a litte better today.

    I have been reading up on lyme disease and vaccine and seem alot of info about symptoms of arthiritis related to Lyme disease and vaccines.

    Unfortunatley we cannot reach her regular vet until monday morning and I am not sure what to do at this point.  I was hoping that she would be significantly better this morning.

    I hate to see me dog uncomfortable and am worried that I am making this worse by waiting until monday.  Should the ER have tested for lyme disease?  Does she test positive since she has had the vaccine? Is this just a side effect of the Lyme vaccine?  Will the side effect subside or is it permanent?

    Any suggestions? Just not sure what to do and don't want to make this worse by waiting.

     

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  • 03-29-2009 11:53 AM In reply to doubleducks

    Re: drastic change in dog after vaccines

    Wow -- that was a TON all in one day.  Lyme vaccine is a huge vaccine, very prone to side effects.  Bordatella is a "live" vaccine that can be difficult for some dogs.  Adding the chemicals on top increased the burden.

    There are several of us on here who have dogs who have had auto-immune diseases (pancytopenia and 'immune-mediated hemolytic anemia a/k/a IMHA) so we've learned to be ultra cautious (my Billy can't ever be vaccinated with ANYTHING ... literally for *any* reason ... EVER). 

    Right now, go look at your dog's gums.  Are they more pale than normal?  Press your fingertip on the gum and then release -- the color should snap right back in just a second, *not* in several seconds.  Pale gums means the vet again NOW.  Do not wait for Monday.

    One of the side effects of vaccines and chemicals can be things that cause anemia and you might not find it otherwise.  (Any time you see lethargy you need to be concerned about anemia.)

    When you take your dog to the vet absolutely INSIST on bloodwork. Something like pancytopenia might not show up otherwise (that's when the body kills it's own platelets so there is nothing to 'clot' blood and internal bleeding can happen).

    This is likely attributable to the Lyme shot -- but those other things can add to the mix.  It is usually the adjuvant that causes the problem actually -- that's the 'stuff' in the shot that disburses the disease cells (which is what vaccines are) to the body so immunity can be formed.  But once a dog begins to react to a vaccine, honestly ANY vaccines should be avoided, not just that one. 

    You may want to search on here for Kris Christine's posts and there are a LOT of posts on here about vaccines. 

    If you can get to a health store (something like Whole Foods or Wild Oats) that has a homeopathic department you may want to get homeopathic Thuja.  (NOT Thuja oil but the little blue Boiron tubes).  Give 4 pellets three or four times a day over the next 3 days and that will help the body process the vaccines better.  It's not going to make it "all better" but it will help the body at least assimilate what's been given.

    If you've never used homeopathics -- **don't** give with food.  Homeopathics are sweet.  Fold the pellets inside a piece of paper and crush with a spoon and just pour in the dog's mouth or let the dog lick it up (they really are pleasant -- not bad at all).  They are meant to be absorbed into the mucus membranes of the mouth.

    I would be giving Benedryl (the normal dose is 1-2 mg per pound of body weight given three times a day, but I would definitely give the TWO MG. dose now because of the obvious allergic reaction, pink skin, etc.)  Just use regular plain Benedryl (not a 'cold' formula -- no Tylenol/acetaminaphen for dogs EVER).  The capsules are 25 mg each -- so for the two mg dose a 50 pound dog needs four capsules (yes that IS the correct dose -- check any vet PDR or even call the emergency vet for confirmation of that dose) and yes give it at least two or three times today.

    Yes, that will make the dog sleepy -- but dogs have faster metabolisms than we do, hence the bigger dose (and a too-small dose will do nothing).  But it should help the dog deal with the allergic reaction until you can get it to your own vet.

    Good luck -- let us know how it goes.


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  • 03-29-2009 2:23 PM In reply to doubleducks

    Re: drastic change in dog after vaccines

    Please read http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1588&S=1&SourceID=42

    That article will answer some of your questions.  Please find out exactly what Lyme vaccine was used.  There are different formulations from different manufacturers.

    Lyme vaccines are designed to develop antibodies against proteins on the outside of the Lyme spirochete.  The more proteins the vaccine targets the greater the risk of vaccine reaction.  There is speculation that arthritis reactions to a Lyme vaccine (or to Lyme itself) are due to one (or more) of the antibodies generated.  These problem antibodies attack normal body proteins. 

    Said another way, some canines and humans are speculated to have normal body proteins that are very similar to one or more of the proteins in the Lyme spirochete.  Antibodies against those Lyme proteins may attack their cousin proteins.  Therefore, the fewer types of antibodies generated by a Lyme vaccine the better.

    Callie gave you good ideas for things to do now.  Ideas for the future:

    • Insist on single-vial injections.  Have the syringe filled in front of you and have the vial label taped into your dog's chart.  That gives you a permanent record of the manufacturer, batch number, etc.
    • Keep a notebook with copies of each page of your dog's chart and copies of all test results.  This can be very helpful when going to an ER vet.  Those vets will know of bad batches of vaccine faster than most regular vets because the ER vets see more emergencies.
    • Space out the toxins that your dog receives.  That includes any vaccine and any pesticide.  Avoid injections with multiple vaccines.  Not only is this easier on the dog's system, but it helps you identify the cause of any reaction. 
    • Absolutely never get an injection to control heartworms.  That product (ProHeart by Ft. Dodge) was pulled off the market after killing/sickening a lot of dogs, but a new version is back.  To me putting 6-months worth of pesticide into a dog's blood stream with no antidote is just insane.

    There are a number of us on this board that simply will not use Ft. Dodge products unless absolutely necessary. 

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  • 03-29-2009 8:42 PM In reply to janet_rose

    Re: drastic change in dog after vaccines

    I hope your dog is feeliing better tonight. 

    Actually, Willow's vet tested her for Lyme before giving her the vaccine.  It was found that she already had Lyme disease so no vaccine was given. 

    I'm surprised the ER didn't draw at least a CBC to check, RBC, WBC and platelets at least. 

    Also, just wanted to clarify, pancytopenia from what I've been told is destruction of all three RBC, WBC and platelets.  Thrombocytopenia is destruction of platelets. 

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  • 03-31-2009 12:48 AM In reply to willowchow

    Re: drastic change in dog after vaccines

    When my 2 1/2 year old golden retiever had a seee reaction to her second set of annuas--no problem ith puppy vax, no problame with first year et of annuals, my vet would o longer vaccinate her against anything other thn law required rabies.

    AND AFTER AFTER THAT, ALL VAX WERE SPACED.  And i never used the Frontloine nor gave Interceptor with day of any vax or each other.  I think of all that stuff like beer.  You can drink one here, one there and no problem.  But drink a lot at one time and there is a problem YOU are drunk.  You are "overloaded" They need to be spaced out to prevent this.  However, i some cases, one beer is to much--one beer would make my Mom tipy, and in some cases just one vax can cause a reaction.    But you are really pusing it to get all thowe vax, fleatretment and hertworm pill all at once. 

     I sure hope your dog is okay and tht you learn as I did...as we all did.. that even tho vets may want to do ll this at one time, it really is not safe.

     By the way, I lost my 4 year old golden reteiever, Hunter to autoimmune hemolytic anemia brought on by the 6 month heartworm preventation injection, Proheart6.  Stick withthe pills, do not use the injection.

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