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Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

Last post 03-16-2009 10:56 PM by calliecritturs. 16 replies.
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  • 03-06-2009 7:36 PM

    Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    Tink is the pug we adopted last summer. She's a pug and she has a really bad case of demodex.

    The demodex is actually going pretty well -- we've done it all with avoiding triggers, the frequent bathing/rinses and boosting the immune system with vitamins, supplements and herbals, and with a good support of homeopathy/homotoxicology from Dr. Joe Demers here in Orlando,

    But we just can't quite kick it and she's a year old now and really with the support we've given the body she should truly have been able to mature past it.

    Now given .... her's was a horrific case (go to my photos and you'll see "lulu" - as she was called then -- as she looked in June in the "original" picture that looks like a horror mask *sigh*) and she had been very neglected. We have obviously come a LONG LONG LONG way.

    BUT ... I've been talking to the vets (regular, acupuncture, and homeopathic vets) ALL of them ... and they agree we should be 'further' than we are. SOOOO next is to find out what else could be going on that is keeping the poor immune system so beleaguered. Bloodwork has been done (on several occasions recently) -- a small infection found and treated, but still -- her liver values remain high, no matter what we do!!

    Soooooooooooooo -- since a stressed (or genetically sucky) liver could most certain cause skin problems to not rectify, we're looking further. She went up today to my regular vet to get a bile acids test (and another chem blood panel, and a full urinarlysis just to be on the safe side) and we'll see what THAT shows.

    Keep her in your thots and prayers please? She's not "sick" but I know this dog well enough to know that she's certainly not 100% -- it's gradually getting a bit worse (altho the skin isn't -- but something is working against 'maturation' here I think). She is a sweet sweet girl.

    We're suspecting some sort of genetic liver problem *maybe* (she's not sick enough for a liver shunt, nor is she 'tiny') -- nothing is certain, but I can feel it.  There IS something going on. 

    Whatever it is we'll deal with it.  But we do a lot of work with demodex dogs, and I'd rather Tink would be with us than anywhere else.  Because I always tell people OVER and OVER ... if you have a dog with demodex, and you're trying to build the immune system, avoid triggers, keep them ultra clean and mite free but you just can't get past it after several months of leading the body to wellness, then FIND OUT WHAT IS UP!!!

     If you just try to shove ivermectin or milbemycin at them for years, ultimately the liver gives out, and the dog dies VERY young.  I'd really like her to be around a long time.  She's a sweetheart and she's going to make an awesome therapy dog.  But ... good thots and prayers go a long long way.  Thanks!

    P.S. If you're looking at the original pictures in my profile, we changed her name -- b/c we already had a "luna" -- from lulu to Tinkerbell.  And yes, that is her in my signature.  She's an almond-eyed pug -- kinda rare, but definitely cute!! LOL



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  • 03-06-2009 8:20 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • sl2crmeg
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    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    STINKerbell, you better have been a good girl at Dr. B's today! Pirate sez he thinks hangin' around there isn't too fun either but they give you TREATS. Didn't yer mom pack you a lunch box, he wants to know?
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  • 03-06-2009 8:30 PM In reply to sl2crmeg

    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    ACtually YES< I did -- she had her apple treats that she loves AND I had to pack 'lunch' (cos she had to be fasted before the bile acids test and THEN re-tested a certain number of hours after feeding).  But I think she got herself so wound up and nervous as soon as Sharika fed her she threw it up ... so then they fed her some Hills (oh joy) which she kept down.

     She's VERY subdued tonight -- and I think she just got really rattled that she was up there all day.  She plays with EVERBUDDY (and apparently lept over Kramer -- the elderly vet-office cat at least 3 times cos she knows he's a 'buddy' but he just wasn't moving fast enough!!) and she's a favorite with the staff ... but it still unnerved her.


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  • 03-06-2009 8:34 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • sl2crmeg
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    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    Poor Tink, sounds like she had a rough day. Hopefully the results are good though (and by GOOD I mean SHOW US SOME INFORMATION! :) )
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  • 03-06-2009 9:07 PM In reply to sl2crmeg

    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    Hope everything is OK with Tink, Callie.  We will be thinking of her and praying. . .

    Lori & Willow

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  • 03-06-2009 9:40 PM In reply to willowchow

    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

     Gosh Callie I hope you find out why her liver values are so high. Weren't you giving her SamE; that's supposed to be a very good supplement for liver support. Let us know what the tests show as soon as you hear. Poor little Tink; I'll be praying for her.

    Janice
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  • 03-07-2009 7:27 AM In reply to jessies_mom

    • JackieG
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    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    Callie, thinking of little Tink and praying for her.




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  • 03-07-2009 7:32 AM In reply to jessies_mom

    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    jessies_mom:
    Weren't you giving her SamE; that's supposed to be a very good supplement for liver support.

    Yep, she's taking both milk thistle (which is more the protectant but which isnt a slouch at helping detox the liver) AND Sam e (which is more the detox as well as 'support').  Those words "protectant", "detox" and "support" are actually different, but yeah, she's been on both for weeks.  Been doing milk thistle since the "Christmas of the sparkle poop" (she got into chocolate which is deadly nasty to the liver) and the Sam E for about 3 weeks now.

    And yeah, Megan -- **information** is what we need!! 


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  • 03-07-2009 11:28 AM In reply to calliecritturs

    • cakana
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    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    Callie - I hope you can get this figured out. I know how frustrating it is but I also believe that if anyone can, you can. I'll be thinking good thoughts for Tinkerbell.

    Question - is there any reason not to take Milk Thistle on a regular basis?

    ~ Cathy ~
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  • 03-07-2009 12:21 PM In reply to cakana

    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    cakana:
    Question - is there any reason not to take Milk Thistle on a regular basis?

    None at all - particularly if you are also having to take some med that's hard on the liver.  Billy's been on milk thistle for years now.  me, too.


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  • 03-07-2009 2:54 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • cakana
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    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    calliecritturs:

    cakana:
    Question - is there any reason not to take Milk Thistle on a regular basis?

    None at all - particularly if you are also having to take some med that's hard on the liver.  Billy's been on milk thistle for years now.  me, too.

    Thanks - I didn't think so but wanted to make sure. I was using echinacea for Sassy for awhile and the vet said to stop it after several weeks and wait a couple weeks before restarting. I wasn't sure what other meds are like that.

    ~ Cathy ~
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  • 03-07-2009 7:06 PM In reply to cakana

    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    You're absolutely right -- herbals ARE meds and yeah, it sure can make a difference.  Echinacea is an immune-booster -- and more than some other ones, the body can get 'used' to it and it ignores it *and* it can be hard on the kidneys after a while.  Short term it works best -- like 3 weeks or so.

    Depends on a lot of things but it's always wise to check.


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  • 03-08-2009 11:05 PM In reply to calliecritturs

    • NicoleS
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    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    Good thoughts for you guys and hoping you can get some answers..... Tink is looking great compared to when you got her!  Good luck.

    Nicole & Sammy

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  • 03-15-2009 9:07 PM In reply to NicoleS

    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

     Callie; Did you get back the results from the bile acids test? If so, I hope the results were good news.

    Janice
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  • 03-15-2009 10:53 PM In reply to jessies_mom

    Re: Tinkerbell -- looking further (Callie)

    *sigh* the results were completely inconclusive in many ways. 

    The bile acids test WAS ok -- no huge problem with the liver.

    The urinalysis showed a "few" oxalate crystals.  ugh. -- NOT what I wanted to see (oxalate's are genetic -- and I've been keeping the food a bit acidic because the others do better on it, and Tink had seemed to -- but NOPE I can't increase the acidity -- it will make oxalates more prone to grow).

    HOWEVER -- her blood values are very .... "odd".  We've got one liver value that just isn't moving far, despite huge doses of milk thistle and Sam E (which would be detoxing her pretty darned well actually).  But it's just ONE liver value that's so problematic.

    But at the same time the BUN/creatinine (which is a kidney value aaaruuughghhhh) was HIGH -- creat is actually ok (a tad high but 'ok') and it was the urea nitrogen (the BUN part of the ratio) was high.

    BUT ... I've been feeding them a far higher protein level than I have historically.  The holistic vet was wanting me to do a higher protein diet for all of them than I ever have in the past (and a lot of you know I'm always the only not thrilled about a high protein diet anyway).So, since October I've been doing a far higher protein (meat) level than I ever have before.  Worked out all the kinks with calcium etc. 

    And now BOTH Billy and Tink have high liver values and Tinks kidneys are a bit troubled.

    So ... I discussed it with all the vets and I'm going back to the protein ratio *I* am comfortable with.  Gonna lessen the acid (part of which was an attempt to get her to stop eating poop anyway). 

     But part of my thinking is that it may be leftover protein in the *** that is drawing her ANYWAY.  So by increasing the protein I may have been shooting myself in the foot the whole way around.  Billy's not doing well on it, Tink's not, and ... she's eating poop like it was McKennedy's "to go" fare. 

    So ... I'm going to try 2-3 weeks of about 20% protein.  Then we'll re-do Billy AND Tink's bloodwork *and* Tink's urine and see where we are then.

    She also goes to see Dr. Demers Wednesday -- and will see what HE thinks.  Dr. DiNatale is thinking Billy's adrenals are whacked out ... and I"m hoping one more vet input may shed some light on it all.

    Thanks for asking.  It's been a whirlwind couple of weeks and this weekend I feel like I was shot out of a cannon anyway.  But I've done a TON of thinking and at this point I'm going to go with my own 'gut' -- that I tried the higher protein ratio (about 50% by weight) and I'm not happy with it.  So more veggies (I do NOT want to add a ton of grain) and we'll see where it goes.

    ahh -- ETA -- I didn't finish my thot up there -- the holistic vets cautioned me that the BUN may be high BECAUSE of the higher protein.  That often dogs on a high protein diet (raw or cooked) will have a higher BUN just due to the higher protein -- but as long as the creatinine isn't high it's not a big deal).

    But that's what really got me thinking to decrease the protein and then it all seemed to tie together when I thot about the extra protein in the poop and her INCREASED insistence that she's gonna wait at Billy's butt for 'snack time'.  *sigh*


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