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Please help, dangerous situation

Last post 01-25-2009 11:06 AM by luvmyswissy. 24 replies.
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  • 01-15-2009 10:08 AM

    • ann404
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    Please help, dangerous situation

    Boy do I need some insight here. The last time I posted it was because our dog of 11 years was at the end of her life, and sadly she has gone. After a few months of my 5yrs saying she wanted another dog and us missing her too we decided to get a 7 month rescued golden retriever. Seemed like a great dog for us at the time, and I still think he is a great dog. However, he’s a playful pup, and powerful, and destructive. Thought he has toys, and I’m with him all day, he destroys everything. He jumps on our daughter and pulls her off the swing. He humps her and smacks into her to knock her down.

    All day I’m with him and he is a very good dog, but when she gets home that is it. Now my daughter is having behavior problems too that we are taking her to see the doctor about (just came up in the last 2 months). So she does encourage the dog to act up. Still she has bruises all over from the dog jumping, humping, and knocking her down. I’ve talked with trainers who say to use a can with pennies, or a squirt bottle, but this doesn’t seem to work. I think because my daughter is encouraging him to act this way. Which is also a problem, we don’t have control of her right now, and we don’t know whats going on with her to help yet. Yesterday he knock her off her feet and her head smacked to the ground 3 inches from her wooden sandbox rail, she could have been seriously hurt. I was standing 2 feet from her to protect her but he was just too fast. He also got past me at another time in the day and ran into the house, found her and jump her to knock her down. Again he is strong and fast, and I couldn’t get to him in time. I think he (the dog) thinks this is what she wants him to do. I am worried that it’s a matter of time before he hurts her, that my daughters problem may take a while to get through and that the dog is only going to get worst. I also have a new baby due in a week and I’m afraid he’ll jump a newborn; again, because it is what he thinks is good from my daughter encouraging him to do it. The rescue I got him from would take him back, and they are a great rescue that takes very good care of the animals. So he would be safe if we got rid of him, but that’s the thing, the thought of just getting rid of him is upsetting. My husband said the thought of our daughter getting hurt is more upsetting, because we don’t think she can control herself right now. With everything going on we just don’t know what to do, we didn’t foresee this happening 3 months ago when we got him. The only problem then was a new baby on the way, and that was ok with us (we’ve always had a dog). Please any help, thanks for reading.

    PS: he seems to follow commands during the day fine, sit, stay. It’s when my daughter is grabbing at him that he acts up. He also play bites her which is bad for a 50lbs dog to do to a 38lbs girl. I tried to put him in the yard just between 3:00-6:00 until hubby can help. But he destroyed so much in 3 days out there, her swings, our window screens, A/C Line, door, and much more.

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  • 01-15-2009 10:33 AM In reply to ann404

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    do you exercise this dog? just putting him out in the yard isn't exercise. A strapping young golden needs at least an hour of hard exercise every day.

    Leash him anytime the daughter is around for now. How old is the daughter?

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  • 01-15-2009 10:39 AM In reply to mudpuppy

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    I agree, structured exercise and keep him away from your daughter.  They should not be allowed to interact until both have a better understanding of the boundaries.

    Has the dog had any sort of obedience training? Start on that, Google NILIF.


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  • 01-15-2009 10:50 AM In reply to Liesje

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

     I would also have your daughter take him to obedience class, so they can build a bond where she is in a leadership role. It would be something constructive for her, and something she could feel good about as the dog progresses.

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  • 01-15-2009 12:31 PM In reply to ann404

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    This is a hard situation.  It can be solved, but it will take a major commitment of time which I don't know if you have.  The puppy is just being a crazy Golden puppy and he will become an even crazier puppy in the next few months.  The only way to get the situation under control is to give him TONS of exercise every day and to get cracking on training so that he learns that he cannot treat you daughter the way he is treating her.  By exercise, I mean at least two hours of hard aerobic exercise (running, swimming, playing with another dog) every day. 

    He seems to see your daughter as another puppy, and your daughter is encouraging him.  Even if she only encourages him some of the time, he will take every opportunity he can to jump on her and mouth her.  It is called intermittent reinforcement and it is the type of reinforcement most likely to cause a behavior to continue.

    I like the idea of having your daughter work on obedience with him.  It will help her as well as the puppy since she can have the puppy responding to her in a positive way.  I am also a huge fan of taking classes with your dog.

    I think doggy daycare would be a great solution for this pup.  He will have to opportunity to expend his energy in a safe way and fulfill his need to play like a puppy with other puppies.  Make sure you research the daycare before using it to make sure it is a good place for your puppy.

    Finally, and please don't take this the wrong way, but I think the rescue was a little careless in giving a young active pup to a family with a young child and another on the way.

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  • 01-15-2009 1:55 PM In reply to GoldenAC

    • ann404
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    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    My daughter is only 4 almost 5. SHe has been displaying aggressive problem and her doc thinks she may be depressed. We are taking her to another doc the month. She wants him to bite her even if it hurts (or that's the way it's seems to me). The dog does well in the daytime, and does know basic commands. I've talked with trainers, but the waiting list to get in a class is 2 months. One told me "how can we change the dogs behavior if your daughter is telling him it's OK". He said her (daughters) reinforcment is much stronger then ours as that's more fun. You are right  about the exercise

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  • 01-15-2009 3:21 PM In reply to ann404

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    Wow, she is much younger than I expected.

    Honestly, if I were in your shoes, and she is only 4 or 5, the dog would be returned to the rescue. Even if your daughter is encouraging the behavior, it's dangerous and it's teaching the dog that it's OK to bite and mouth people.

    Neither of these things is good for the dog or your daughter. Safety first.

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  • 01-15-2009 3:50 PM In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

    • glenmar
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    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    Ah, the very reason that I don't like to place pups in homes with little ones.

    You have to train the pup AND the child.  Preferably, together.  Limit their exposure to one another unless you are there and crate the pup when you can't keep both safe.  I never use a crate for punishment, but it can be great for a timeout, and sounds like sometimes your daughter could use a time out as well.

    This is a tough situation and it wouldn't be out of line to consider returning the pup to the rescue, but you MUST assure your child that it is NOT her fault that puppy has to go back.

    A house without fur is not a home.
    Glenda



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  • 01-15-2009 5:29 PM In reply to ann404

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    I have 5 small children in my home. I breed a large breed of athletic hound. The number one most important rule of thumb is structure.  Let's break this situation down from a very basic viewpoint. If I am saying anything you already know it is not to be patronizing but it is to be as clear as possible. I hate leaving things to chance so please bear with me.  Some of this may seem ot but in reality it will help you make a choice about what you need to do to keep this guy in your home.

    This is most likely the pup's 4th to 5th home in his brief little life. Begin with the breeder, then first home, shelter or first rescue pull, foster and finally your home. That is a ton to process for the little guy!! The chances of separation anxiety are pretty good. He does not have a solid base and sense of structure in his little head yet.   Now ask yourself why did a nice little guy end up in Rescue to begin with??  sigh.... I would offer  the probability that it was an impulse buy by the first owner. The "breeder" may have made little effort to really be careful about the placement, or made no effort to remain involved afterwords. The pup may have begun to act like a pup and the new owner had no clue how to correct the problems.  There is always the possibility that the new owner fell on very hard times but thad the puppy been bred correctly , microchipped and registered by the breeder it should have gone back to them. Since it did not I makes me question the effort and intent from that person.  This pup may have been placed as young as 6 or 7 weeks ,  all of these little details make a huge difference in the pup's ability to process and grow.

    At 7 months the dog is far too young to be left outside unattended for a few hours. This is not an invitation but a guarantee there will be damage.  Between boredom and the possible SA it will be up to you to plan his day to avoid the acting out that is more normal than not. He will need an outside kennel area for the time when you can not be with him but you want him outside. ( You see the run type kits at home depot stores)  not overly large but secure, covered and you can put toys and chews to entertain him while he is in there. THIS IS NOT your solution it simply allows you additional control and help. Left in there too long he will begging to dig and bark so please do not see this as a fast fix. In the house the dog needs a kennel. Something he can learn is safe and his. Begin with possibly just feeding him in there and increasing time spent.  Again This is not your solution it is part of the process to gaining control and being able to work with both the pup and your child.

    Children are not a huge problem when you are trying to teach a pup,  Pups are not a huge problem when raising a kid (s)..chaos is the undoing factor .  Both share levels of unpredictable behavior and needs and since you can't simply schedule it you have to learn how to cope with it. The dog you lost was settled in it's ways and able to read all of you with ease. Your little guy is still trying to learn.

    Let's talk Mom Talk about the  pup's ability to process..when you were potty training your daughter she learned the word first and knew what it was..then learned to associate what you did there, then she began to understand what you wanted her to do there...eventually she began to use the potty and after a time do so dependably.  Your pup is going through much the same thing. When you said

    ann404:
    he seems to follow commands during the day fine, sit, stay.
      you say that as if he is trained therefore any misbehavior is a choice.  He is not trained, he is getting there but he is in no way "trained".   A trained dog does not have time frames to pick and choose when to behave or respond.  He is associating several things that you are missing. Things like your nevousness over the new baby coming and the 4 year old's change in behavior.  The changes in the house, and even in the short time he has been with you he understands and sees the energy flow and ebb you are experiencing as an expectant mom.  He knows when you see his happy face and glowing coat you feel secure and content, then he plays too roughly and you are scared , tired, angry and out of answers... he does not know how to deal with this.

    He is not to be out with her until his response and ability to listen is clear and reliable unless he is on a long line. Put him on a gentle leader head halter,  Buy a 25 foot legnth of lightweight cording , attatch  a clip to his collar's end and have the other end fashioned in to a handle. Every 2-3 feet down the line tie a knot.  He is allowed to run and play but should you or your husband see him barrel towards her the rope is shortened and he is corrected by himself because he will hit the end of his alloted room and his own movement and weight will correct him. Change up his legnth of allowed line and use a control word to teach him to slow down...  It can be anything you will easily remember  I like "Easy" when they begin to get excited and a Stern "Manners" when they are going to act out ... Or even a Mommy noise   UH UH !! 

    The rough housing stops TODAY.   Explain to your daughter that you have to be a team to raise this boy because he needs you to be. That she is a very important part of that team.  Under no circumstances may he play his biting game.  If she allows it she will not be allowed to play with him. PERIOD  At 4 she is old enough to understand this. Don't let anyone tell you it is too hard or complicated it is not. Punishment is guaranteed for being rough with a dog. Loss of privileges to time outs , what ever it takes. ( side note we never have a time out etc last longer than the age of the child when they are under 7.  so an infraction for a 4 yr old would get a 4 minute time out where you can watch her but she can not interact but has to think)  Get her a small bag or bait pouch and out some yummies in it. ( I like goldfish crackers because both kid and pup can share!) have her put the pup through his commands. Get her a brush and put it in her own special bag , have him down and stay an allow her to gently brush him ( not long but always controlled)  Explain to her that you really need her help!!!  That between the new baby and the puppy you all need to work as a team. You must teach ( insert name) to be easy with babies. He is just a silly puppy and needs you to help him learn. When you work together, this is you and Dad working with her you need to allow her success and help her understand his not learning fast is not because he does not love you all but because he is a baby ...  Put up a chart and reward her with stickers for feeding him everyday, ( He must sit first) , helping t pick up his toys... have her put up a chart for him that she get's to award stickers on .... for coming, downing etc... make it tougher as they grow. AND PLEASE do not forget to enthuse wildly and lovingly over the two of them even though you have a hundred million new things to think of each and every moment in this last week or so before the baby arrives and then after when the real chaos starts.

    I offer this advice as both a mom and hands on grandmom.  I have a large FILLED to the brim home full of people, dogs and action.  It is not impossible to make this all work just check out the profile photos of my place I do understand ...... IT will be hard. One last piece of advice.... It is fine to say honestly and openly this is just all too much right now. The timing was not the best and with your older child acting out you may simply not have the energy to deal with everything . Better now , when he is still young enough to place then later when it will become more difficult. Or you have heavily invested big $$ in him.  No one will fault you for thinking it all through and making a tough call.

    Best of luck with ALL of the adventures in your life.

    Bonita of Bwana

     

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  • 01-16-2009 8:07 AM In reply to Bonita of Bwana

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    When you rescued this pup I am assuming you thought you were getting an adult dog but you actually got yourself a teenager with probably no true training.  Everyone has difficulties during this stage with dogs, this is the most important time to make training a priority.  You daughter is enforcing his behavior just by reacting to the dog in any way.  She is a child and has to learn too.  Bonita and everyone gave good advise the important thing you need to take from this is that you have to add training and managing your dog as part of your life.

    If it were me I would keep this dog because I know it will be a wonderful dog once trained, its only being a hyper puppy.  Daily walks and exercise and a training program where you take time specific to training the dog.  Possibly a training class to help you understand how to train would be ideal. 

    Do you use a crate?  You may want to if you don't have one it is wonderful tool to manage the dog when your to busy to supervise.

    Good luck and I hope you can you work it out.

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  • 01-16-2009 8:27 AM In reply to luvmyswissy

    • dyan
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    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    I have nothing to say that could help you.... and I love all the above replies. 

    The only thing I can say is that I have a baby Great Dane that reminds me of your puppy.  Mine is now 10 months old.  He has tons of spirit and energy, just like your dog.  He also knows his commands and when quiet and/or tired... is a good dog. When he "feels" like playing, WATCH OUT!  He does anything he can to get you to "play" with him...   He will also "mouth bite" and jump and seem to have no regard for you.   If you yell at him....or smack him he gets even more excited and does it all the more.  A lot of people have succeeded into making me feel I have done something wrong,, or am doing something wrong...haven't started training soon enough..or haven't gone to the right trainer or havent worked hard enough.  Maybe some of that is true...but I also believe he has a little more spirit than some milder calmer pups.    I am sure he is in his "terrible twos" right now...but I can see improvement in him a little with more work and more time going by.  I DO believe he is going to be a great dog one day...and we love him. But he is a toughie to raise.   Of course I don't have a little one here to add to my problems.... so I can't relate to that.  But I wish you luck... I agree with the above...... if you can work on both your dog and your daughter...... and keep him as exercised and tired as you can..... I bet you guys will have a happy life.  

    But I also agree....if your not able to take the time or have the energy to work on it... give him up now while he is young and has a better chance for a new home.

    BEST OF LUCK!


    Dyan and Gibson
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  • 01-16-2009 3:14 PM In reply to dyan

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    wow I do not envy you. A difficult young child, a new baby, and a dog just about to go through the most difficult time of life for a dog. Lots of people think young puppies are the most work, but no, it's the adolescents 6 months to 1.5 years that really try one's patience. I'm really surprised the rescue would place such a dog into such a situation. How on-board and supportive is the husband? I think you might have to dump the dog's exercise and keeping-him-from-mauling-the-child responsibilities onto husband while you deal with baby and child. Dog daycare is an excellent idea if you have one near you and can afford it.

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  • 01-16-2009 3:37 PM In reply to mudpuppy

    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    Well, first off, the way to protect your child is to protect your dog from your child.  You simply cannot allow these inappropriate interactions, and if you haven't enough support or haven't the time to put a good solution into place, you need to get the dog out of the household.  Arousal and aggression usually escalate if left without intervention, and if he ever bites and breaks skin, the rescue won't want him back, plus he would be at risk of euthanasia at any shelter that would accept him.  Harsh words, but that's the harsh reality that you need to know about to make a good decision here.

    Any adolescent dog will destroy things - they pretty much have to chew to set their adult teeth into their jawbones, and that happens at about this age and beyond.  So, he should get some appropriate hard chew objects (such as Kong toys, with a bit of stuffing frozen in them), no freedom in the house unless an adult is there to supervise, and you absolutely MUST take this dog to a good positive training class where you can learn how to deal with him appropriately but without physical force.  If your child has "issues", and the dog is not safe from abuse, then he is in the wrong home, and if not trained, he will not understand what you want of him in terms of behavior.  Confusion leads to anxiety leads to behavior problems.  Dogs of this age generally need a lot of exercise, and day care is a great way to do that, but it is pricey.  If he fetches, and you have a fenced area to play in, invest in a Chuck-It or some frisbees and run him before he interacts with your kids.  It's harder to bite anyone, or knock anyone down, if he is so tired that he is laying on the floor with his tongue lolling out;-)


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  • 01-16-2009 5:22 PM In reply to ann404

    • hsas2005
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    Re: Please help, dangerous situation

    I understand. I have a 1 yr old puppy. I adopted Bandit from the humane society when he was 7 weeks old. I am unsure of him breed, i have him on the website here and most people think he is an australian cattle dog mix. He can get very hyper and does have that herding instinct when he gets into his playing mode. My children are a 3 yr old daughter and she is big for her age almost 50lbs and a two yr old boy. When I got Bandit they were 1 and 2 yrs old. When he first came into our home he was so little and just wanted to defend himself from the kids. As he got older I think he saw the kids as brother and sister and would play with them like they were puppies too. Including biting, jumping, knocking them down, humping, everything. I had to tell my kids ALL of the time be nice to the dog you dont want him hurting you when he gets bigger. I put them in timeout anytime they were mean to Bandit. If Bandit started getting carried away, I would put him in timeout too. I put him in his kenal if we were inside or if we were outside I would put him on a leash and make him sit right next to me while the kids played. After he would calm down and stop whinning and jumping then I would let him off of his leash. Adventually he understood he wasn't supposed to do that to the kids. It took a lot of effort but now everyone gets along good and my kids get it not to be mean to him or encourage him to be bad. They enjoy playing with Bandit so if I take him away they don't get to play with him anymore so it teaches all three of them to behave. Since you got your dog at an older age you will just have to start from scratch and act like he is a small puppy again and teach him your rules.Golden retrievers are very smart and he should learn. Try getting all different kinds of toys to keep him entertained when your daughter first gets home. The kong toys, they are the toys you put treats or peanutbutter in them worked wonders with my dog to calm him down. You can stop his behavior, it will just take some dedication and he will be a good dog. Your daughter will probably be happier if you set limits to what she can and cant do with your dog and then the dog will catch on to from her actions. I basically had to teach my kids before Bandit could be taught. When you new baby comes introduce them and make sure it is in a positive way. Before you and baby come back home bring a blanket from the hospital that you used to wrap your baby in and give it to you dog. Let him sleep with it put it any were he lays and where the baby is going to be. That way he learns the babies scent before you bring him home and he will be ok with the baby. I did that with both of my kids and our 13 yr old weimaranar/dalmation mix.  I think it helps the dogs with the transition of a new member coming into the house. You can fix your situation but it will take time and determanation.

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  • 01-23-2009 9:01 PM In reply to hsas2005

    • ann404
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    Re: Thanks for all the replies............

    There is a lot of good advise here. Thought we were about to give Reed back to the rescue, we just can't. Hubby very much wants to keep him, and he is such a good boy, we feel these behavior problems are not his fault. You are all right that he needs training, but with the baby due that will take a while to acomplish. Still we feel that in 2or 3 months from now things will get back to nomal, and we'll be able to give him more time and that training. Just wanted to update those who took the time to reply, thanks a ton.
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